6.5 grendel ammo gauge different from chamber?

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  • usar_ds
    Bloodstained
    • Aug 2014
    • 48

    6.5 grendel ammo gauge different from chamber?

    hay all,

    so I believe my ammo gauge Is dimensionaly a little off from my actual rifle chamber, gauge is marked sheridan engineering. compared to my chamber it seems a little shorter on max case length, slightly tighter at the base, and with the shoulder just a hair farther forward than my chamber.

    first a little background.

    I am very new to reloading.

    have been shooting grendel since 2009 i have an alexander arms 16" tactical

    I have been running mostly factory loads first AA 123gr lapua scenars, and then when that got too expensive wolf mpt.

    the past 2 years I have been mostly blowing through my large stockpile of MPT (i now have a big pile of brass) but with the stockpile getting low i have decided to finally get off my ass and learn to reload. I am using lee dies and an ammo gauge I got from AA that's marked sheridan engineering.

    so after some initial issues with inconsistent re-sizing that I believe was due to not enough case lube. I have noticed that my case gauge seems a little off from my chamber.

    when I first began resizing cases I was getting about one out of 4 cases that were slightly expanding at the base, or some that were bumping back at the shoulder a little bit. after doubling up on the lube the problem went away (stopped expanding at the base and shoulder stayed were it should on all cases so far).

    the cases that are slightly expanded at the base would not gauge, but would chamber and extract freely, i even measured the bases before resizing and it was definitely expanding during resizing. so it seems the gauge to be a little tighter than the chamber at the base

    the cases that bumped back at the shoulder would gauge freely, just like butter, just like the unfired factory ammo will, but wont chamber. so it seems that the gauge is a little farther forward at the shoulder

    also i noticed that cases that have over 1.521 in length also wont gauge but will chamber as well, so far all my cases measure well below max length 1.526 (all have only been fired once)

    its not a problem really anymore now that i figured out the inconsistencies, and I am adjusting my resizer die until I reach the point were the cases both chamber and gauge (too far forward and they wont gauge, too far back and they wont chamber) and this seems to work great so far.

    any one else experience this???
  • arizona98tj
    Bloodstained
    • Feb 2013
    • 47

    #2
    I use the Hornady headspace comparator. When comparing my fired brass to unfired Lapua brass....the Lapua brass is .017" shorter. Unfired Hornady brass is .011" shorter. I'm shooting an Alexander Arms 24" Overwatch. That being said, even when I bump the shoulder on my fired brass back the typical .003 to .004", it still exceeds the max length in my Wilson gauge. I guess I have a long chamber, so to speak.

    Comment

    • Zapp
      Unwashed
      • Sep 2014
      • 16

      #3
      Originally posted by usar_ds View Post
      the cases that are slightly expanded at the base would not gauge, but would chamber and extract freely, i even measured the bases before resizing and it was definitely expanding during resizing. so it seems the gauge to be a little tighter than the chamber at the base

      the cases that bumped back at the shoulder would gauge freely, just like butter, just like the unfired factory ammo will, but wont chamber. so it seems that the gauge is a little farther forward at the shoulder
      There will be a little difference from gauge to chamber, since they aren't cut with the exact same reamer. But generally the gauges are on the tight side, which is what you want in a semiauto. So a large base failing the gauge but still chambering is the way you would want it.

      And when you knock the shoulder back, that has the same effect as decreasing the diameter all along the brass as well. Did you use a black marker or smoke to see where exactly they were hanging up in the chamber? That might indicate if it was the headspace, or if something else is the issue. All of these situations you are describing are with unloaded brass, not loaded ammunition, correct?

      How long have you had that gauge?

      Comment

      • usar_ds
        Bloodstained
        • Aug 2014
        • 48

        #4
        Originally posted by Zapp View Post
        There will be a little difference from gauge to chamber, since they aren't cut with the exact same reamer. But generally the gauges are on the tight side, which is what you want in a semiauto. So a large base failing the gauge but still chambering is the way you would want it.

        And when you knock the shoulder back, that has the same effect as decreasing the diameter all along the brass as well. Did you use a black marker or smoke to see where exactly they were hanging up in the chamber? That might indicate if it was the headspace, or if something else is the issue. All of these situations you are describing are with unloaded brass, not loaded ammunition, correct?

        How long have you had that gauge?
        Had the gauge about a year but just started reloading a few months ago so just started using it

        Used a sharpy marker and it was the shoulder.

        And this happened with both unloaded brass and dummy rounds (no primer or powder)

        As I said factory ammo both guages and chambers fine.
        If set the resizer die based only off of the guage it won't chamber
        But I can set the die so that I 1st gauge the cases then chamber them to make sure
        and further adjust the die as needed till they both gauge and chamber ok.
        Then check each case I resize. Then make dummy rounds to make sure all is still good.

        Once I started going more heavy on the case lube all the cases started coming out the same.
        Prior to that I would have maybe 3 out of 10 that had base expansion or incorrect shoulder issues
        Which was frustrating because if it was the shoulder it would still guage ok.
        Last edited by usar_ds; 09-10-2014, 01:47 PM.

        Comment

        • usar_ds
          Bloodstained
          • Aug 2014
          • 48

          #5
          Also. I noticed that even after I started using a lot more case lube I still get occational cases that chamber but wont gauge
          (About 1 in 30)
          By measuring with calipers I have found that these case's are not expanded at the base like before
          but are a little on the long side
          Still within max length but longer than the others
          And no issues chambering even as dummy rounds

          Comment

          • jkingrph
            Warrior
            • Aug 2014
            • 131

            #6
            When I first started reloading for the Grendel, I was having chamber problems even though the Sheridan gauge showed ok. I finally resolved the problem by slowly sanding a little off the top of my case holder, allowing the case to enter the reloading die a little more. I did not measure, just went with trial and error, until I got consistant chambering.
            Member before 2010, account deleted per 2011 spam attack

            Comment

            • usar_ds
              Bloodstained
              • Aug 2014
              • 48

              #7
              Originally posted by jkingrph View Post
              When I first started reloading for the Grendel, I was having chamber problems even though the Sheridan gauge showed ok. I finally resolved the problem by slowly sanding a little off the top of my case holder, allowing the case to enter the reloading die a little more. I did not measure, just went with trial and error, until I got consistant chambering.
              Was this with lee dies?
              And the Sheridan gauge was showing saami spec even when it would n't chamber for you too

              Well at least I am not the only one experiencing this

              Comment

              • Zapp
                Unwashed
                • Sep 2014
                • 16

                #8
                Originally posted by jkingrph View Post
                When I first started reloading for the Grendel, I was having chamber problems even though the Sheridan gauge showed ok. I finally resolved the problem by slowly sanding a little off the top of my case holder, allowing the case to enter the reloading die a little more. I did not measure, just went with trial and error, until I got consistant chambering.
                What barrel is it with? It would have been interesting to see what the difference was with the 2. If it was a diameter, or a headspace.

                Do you have one of the older gauges, with a single milled step on the face? Or a more recent one with 2 different milled steps? The original ones were made to indicate the min/ max chamber headspace. So it might fit in that step, and not fit in the chamber. And the gauge would be working correctly, if that makes sense.

                One of the things I have been working on, over the years, is trying to improve instructions to help answer as many of the customer questions as I can, so it is clear how it works. Definitely email us if you have any questions on the gauges.

                When I added the extra step, 2 longer steps still show headspace of the chamber, and the shortest step shows the minimum ammo length. So it gives a little more info regarding the sizing.



                Originally posted by usar_ds View Post
                Was this with lee dies?
                And the Sheridan gauge was showing saami spec even when it would n't chamber for you too

                Well at least I am not the only one experiencing this
                If you got it a year ago, you may still have the earlier grendel gauges too. Dealer inventories took a while to run out of the early design. Some may even have an old one or two left. It was sliding in/out no problem and hitting the shoulder, then there was no diameter issue.

                I've had a little more issues with the Grendel than other gauges, because of issues with different makers producing different "spec" reamers and barrels that were supposedly the same. But I think the reamer issue has been covered here pretty extensively.

                Comment

                • usar_ds
                  Bloodstained
                  • Aug 2014
                  • 48

                  #9
                  Originally posted by jkingrph View Post
                  When I first started reloading for the Grendel, I was having chamber problems even though the Sheridan gauge showed ok. I finally resolved the problem by slowly sanding a little off the top of my case holder, allowing the case to enter the reloading die a little more. I did not measure, just went with trial and error, until I got consistant chambering.
                  what did you use to sand it down? how much did you take off

                  Comment

                  • rasp65
                    Warrior
                    • Mar 2011
                    • 660

                    #10
                    Usar If you are going to sand down the shell holder use a fine grit emery paper on a piece of flat glass and rotate it as you go. Sand, check, sand, check until you get where it needs to be. The best way to tell is to remove the ejector on the bolt and chamber the sized case when the bolt closes easily you have the correct headspace.
                    Last edited by rasp65; 09-15-2014, 12:22 PM.

                    Comment

                    • usar_ds
                      Bloodstained
                      • Aug 2014
                      • 48

                      #11
                      Originally posted by rasp65 View Post
                      Usar If you are going to sand down the shell holder use a fine grit emery paper on a piece of flat glass and rotate it as you go. Sand, check, sand, check until you get where it needs to be. The best way to tell is to remove the ejector on the bolt and chamber the sized case when the bolt closes easily you have the correct headspace.
                      Thanks for the info.
                      Before I do anything though I need to isolate the problem.

                      had issues when makeing 1st and 2nd string (3 out of 10 ish out of spec)

                      doubled up on the lube and issue seemed to go away
                      I thought I had it solved. Got all cases in a batch of 50 to
                      Gauge and chamber. Took random sample and made dummy rounds
                      All dummies were gtg.
                      next 15 string was gtg
                      next string of 10 after that was gtg
                      Then issues with the rest of the cases in that 50.
                      once loaded, some cases gauge and chamber, but bullets get partially pulled or ripped out during extraction (doesn't happen to dummy rounds from same 50 cases resized at the same time)
                      Seating die is set same as before. checked and rechecked.
                      Even tried adjusting the seating die to find no improvement over original setting
                      So thinking it has to be mis-resizing

                      I want if possible to get a total height measurement of an out of spec caseholder
                      To confirm if it's the problem
                      And or a measurement of a case holder after sanding to find out how much needs to be taken off

                      May look into going with just a second caseholder from another brand if that would work.
                      Last edited by usar_ds; 09-15-2014, 10:40 PM.

                      Comment

                      • rasp65
                        Warrior
                        • Mar 2011
                        • 660

                        #12
                        USAR It sounds like your OAL is too long if the bullets are getting ripped out during extraction. The case gauge I have is a Wilson and only measures the datum to the case head. You need to measure Your chamber to find the proper OAL. Try this:http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...jump-amp-crimp

                        Comment

                        • usar_ds
                          Bloodstained
                          • Aug 2014
                          • 48

                          #13
                          Thanx for the link I'll definitely have to give that a try.

                          The reason I wasn't thinking this was the issue is my cases are within max length
                          And I am seating to 2.245 (nosler recomended)
                          Below max oacl of 2.260
                          Trying to remember the oacl of the mpt ammo I compared
                          I do remember that after measure of the wolf I figured 2.245 was more than a safe bet.

                          And its an AA chamber not some off brand stuff
                          Your right I should check though
                          Last edited by usar_ds; 09-16-2014, 03:51 PM.

                          Comment

                          • rasp65
                            Warrior
                            • Mar 2011
                            • 660

                            #14
                            You have to remember the seating depth that Nosler used was for their test barrel. Every chamber is unique, follow my directions in the post and see what your measurements are. Also the ogive of the bullet varies with each bullet so mag length does not always work with every bullet. Measure measure measure

                            Comment

                            • usar_ds
                              Bloodstained
                              • Aug 2014
                              • 48

                              #15
                              Originally posted by rasp65 View Post
                              You have to remember the seating depth that Nosler used was for their test barrel. Every chamber is unique, follow my directions in the post and see what your measurements are. Also the ogive of the bullet varies with each bullet so mag length does not always work with every bullet. Measure measure measure
                              will do

                              will post back after measurements
                              Last edited by usar_ds; 09-17-2014, 03:35 AM.

                              Comment

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