THIS Is the Dedicated 65G Bullet I Want

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  • sneaky one
    Chieftain
    • Mar 2011
    • 3077

    #76
    So, the 95 grn. Gmx that I made 3 yrs. ago- kinda fills the niche here? All you military aficionados go to the extremes!
    Back to basics , gents. BTW, the 100 Barny - has a huge jump when loaded to 2.260= 75- k

    By comparison, the Gmx at same loaded oal==== a 95 k jump in my chamber. That's why I made the mag. to handle 2.310 ammo== only a 43-45k jump to contact== sweet accuarccy in my rifle.

    I wow the guys quite easily @ the range with my - Gmx hunting loads- while they mostly struggle to get over the flinch of their magnum's Bite= to even hit the target, as they look aside whilst yankin the trigger. Hee heee! So fun...

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    • BluntForceTrauma
      Administrator
      • Feb 2011
      • 3897

      #77
      Sneaks, you got a 65G chamber or LBC or what?
      :: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets

      :: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::

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      • BluntForceTrauma
        Administrator
        • Feb 2011
        • 3897

        #78
        Regarding BC of the concept 100 solid VLD bullet, Bill A. is pretty confident the Russian steel-case 100 FMJ has a BC of 0.400, and it truly looks like about the most perfect tangent ogive one can put on a 100gr 6.5 bullet without getting ridiculous (yes, the Lapua 100gr HPBT is a little ridiculous with barely half lead fill in a cavernous empty jacket; BC by Lapua listed as 0.424, BTW).

        Anyway, I asked Bill hopefully if the concept could get to 0.450. He had to let me down gently. [Cue British accent] "I think that's quite optimistic." So I'm gonna just pull a figure from my nether regions and say we should hope for a BC of 0.415 from an idealized 65G 100gr solid VLD.
        :: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets

        :: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::

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        • sneaky one
          Chieftain
          • Mar 2011
          • 3077

          #79
          I have the std. AA compound chamber from 2008-Sammi certified. It wasn't Sammied' then-- yet it' s the same chamber that Bill A , & his gang cuts into all the rifles that they produced for years now,.

          Hunting pills for inside of 300yds., BC's are not that big of a factor. Many more tricks up the sleeve to reveal. The waiting is the hardest part...

          Comment

          • Variable
            Chieftain
            • Mar 2011
            • 2403

            #80
            Originally posted by sneaky one View Post
            So, the 95 grn. Gmx that I made 3 yrs. ago- kinda fills the niche here? All you military aficionados go to the extremes!
            Back to basics , gents. BTW, the 100 Barny - has a huge jump when loaded to 2.260= 75- k

            By comparison, the Gmx at same loaded oal==== a 95 k jump in my chamber. That's why I made the mag. to handle 2.310 ammo== only a 43-45k jump to contact== sweet accuarccy in my rifle.

            I wow the guys quite easily @ the range with my - Gmx hunting loads- while they mostly struggle to get over the flinch of their magnum's Bite= to even hit the target, as they look aside whilst yankin the trigger. Hee heee! So fun...
            Yep, we hate to leave anything left on the table.LOL

            On the BC issue, I kind of look at it like this:


            Lapua 100gr. FMJ with a BC of .250 = "BRICK"




            Nosler 100 gr. BT with a BC of .350 = "Lawn Dart"




            Lapua 100gr. Scenar with a BC of .424 = "DAGGER"





            I don't expect the exact same BC as the dagger, but I also want better than a lawn dart if possible. If tweaking the nose shape and an optimized polymer tip could give me a .400 BC, then I'd call it good enough and walk away feeling like nothing got left behind laying on the table.LOL


            ETA: I got interrupted while typing this post and John brought up the Laupua 100gr. Scenar before I could get back and finish posting. I laughed when I read his post above (#78).

            John: I'm pretty sure I'm on your wavelength with what you're looking for.LOL I want it too!
            Last edited by Variable; 09-22-2014, 05:14 AM.
            Life member NRA, SAF, GOA, WVSRPA (and VFW). Also member WVCDL. Join NOW!!!!!
            We either hang together on this, or we'll certainly HANG separately.....

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            • Variable
              Chieftain
              • Mar 2011
              • 2403

              #81
              Originally posted by HANKA View Post
              Regarding BC of the concept 100 solid VLD bullet, Bill A. is pretty confident the Russian steel-case 100 FMJ has a BC of 0.400, and it truly looks like about the most perfect tangent ogive one can put on a 100gr 6.5 bullet without getting ridiculous (yes, the Lapua 100gr HPBT is a little ridiculous with barely half lead fill in a cavernous empty jacket; BC by Lapua listed as 0.424, BTW).

              Anyway, I asked Bill hopefully if the concept could get to 0.450. He had to let me down gently. [Cue British accent] "I think that's quite optimistic." So I'm gonna just pull a figure from my nether regions and say we should hope for a BC of 0.415 from an idealized 65G 100gr solid VLD.
              Heh heh, the number pulled from twixt your nethers was even more audacious than mine. I'd be more than ecstatic (to say the least) if that could be done. We need a team of pocket protector wearing engineers chained in a basement and flogged until they can shape the nose right.
              Life member NRA, SAF, GOA, WVSRPA (and VFW). Also member WVCDL. Join NOW!!!!!
              We either hang together on this, or we'll certainly HANG separately.....

              Comment

              • Variable
                Chieftain
                • Mar 2011
                • 2403

                #82
                Originally posted by sneaky one View Post
                I have the std. AA compound chamber from 2008-Sammi certified. It wasn't Sammied' then-- yet it' s the same chamber that Bill A , & his gang cuts into all the rifles that they produced for years now,.

                Hunting pills for inside of 300yds., BC's are not that big of a factor. Many more tricks up the sleeve to reveal. The waiting is the hardest part...
                I think that is where we slightly diverge. I wouldn't want that limit imposed on it. I'd like to squeeze out any extra BC that can be realistically had without destroying performance.
                Life member NRA, SAF, GOA, WVSRPA (and VFW). Also member WVCDL. Join NOW!!!!!
                We either hang together on this, or we'll certainly HANG separately.....

                Comment

                • Variable
                  Chieftain
                  • Mar 2011
                  • 2403

                  #83
                  I have a thought here--- stand back. Me thinking can be dangerous...

                  Anybody have a pic of a sectioned 6.5mm 100gr. Lapua Scenar? I can't find one right now (my search-fu sucks). It has a hollow section in the nose doesn't it? How large? I'm wondering if you simply aped the shape of the Scenar bullet, but did it in a mono metal HP with a polymer tip-- how much would it weigh?
                  Last edited by Variable; 09-22-2014, 07:47 AM.
                  Life member NRA, SAF, GOA, WVSRPA (and VFW). Also member WVCDL. Join NOW!!!!!
                  We either hang together on this, or we'll certainly HANG separately.....

                  Comment

                  • Variable
                    Chieftain
                    • Mar 2011
                    • 2403

                    #84
                    If they are of otherwise similar construction---- a copper mono-metal bullet is about 80% of the weight (or thereabouts) of a lead cored gilding clad bullet right?

                    No one complains about the shape of the Hornady 123 Amax, right? 80% of 123gr. is 98.4 grains. Then deduct a little more for driving bands... If a bullet was identical in shape to the 123 Hornady Amax, but weighed 95 grains instead, and had driving bands to reduce engraving pressure... It'd fly considerably faster, right?

                    Can some BC guru figure out how much the BC would drop because of the driving bands and weight reduction? Starting out with a BC of .510 (for the original shape) might possibly leave room to lose some and still be pretty decent.


                    ETA: Upon further staring and pondering--- I'd guess that if you replaced the lead in a Hornady 123 Amax with copper/gilding metal, drilled a deeper small diameter hollow core (like the Tac-TX), added a similar polymer tip, and added driving bands, it'd probably be between 90 and 95 grains? We already know that shape plays well in the Grendel chamber...

                    You guys that handload the 123 Amax projectile: How much powder can you normally cram under an Amax?
                    Last edited by Variable; 09-22-2014, 08:04 AM.
                    Life member NRA, SAF, GOA, WVSRPA (and VFW). Also member WVCDL. Join NOW!!!!!
                    We either hang together on this, or we'll certainly HANG separately.....

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                    • Zach987
                      Bloodstained
                      • Nov 2011
                      • 39

                      #85
                      I'm not aware of monometal bullets experiencing the same blow-up factor as cup and core bullets when pushed extremely fast. (Looking at the heavy hitters: 6.5 mags). Call me simple minded, but if Barnes already has the 100gr TTSX, why haven't they already modified (lengthened nose, larger hole/tip) it for better expansion and BC already?

                      Comment

                      • bwaites
                        Moderator
                        • Mar 2011
                        • 4445

                        #86
                        Originally posted by Zach987 View Post
                        I'm not aware of monometal bullets experiencing the same blow-up factor as cup and core bullets when pushed extremely fast. (Looking at the heavy hitters: 6.5 mags). Call me simple minded, but if Barnes already has the 100gr TTSX, why haven't they already modified (lengthened nose, larger hole/tip) it for better expansion and BC already?
                        Mostly because no one has asked and showed enough interest to do so. Barnes is pretty receptive to good ideas.

                        Comment

                        • BluntForceTrauma
                          Administrator
                          • Feb 2011
                          • 3897

                          #87
                          Pic of sectioned 100 Lapua Scenar attached.
                          Attached Files
                          :: 6.5 GRENDEL Deer and Targets :: 6mmARC Targets and Varmints and Deer :: 22 ARC Varmints and Targets

                          :: I Drank the Water :: Revelation 21:6 ::

                          Comment

                          • Variable
                            Chieftain
                            • Mar 2011
                            • 2403

                            #88
                            Originally posted by HANKA View Post
                            Pic of sectioned 100 Lapua Scenar attached.
                            Hah! Good one.

                            So I'm guessing a copper/guilding mono-metal with the exact same outer shape would weigh about the same...

                            Things are getting interestingerrrr.
                            Life member NRA, SAF, GOA, WVSRPA (and VFW). Also member WVCDL. Join NOW!!!!!
                            We either hang together on this, or we'll certainly HANG separately.....

                            Comment

                            • cory
                              Chieftain
                              • Jun 2012
                              • 2985

                              #89
                              Personally I'd like to see two projectiles come from this. First one with a weight that'll allow a MV of 2600fps +100fps maximizing BC and one that'll allow a MV of 2900fps +100fps all at 52ksi from an 18" pipe.

                              At least a look at the two in regards to effects on medium game at maximum distance and go with the one with greater range.

                              Question, this bullet has been referred to as a VLD. It's my understanding that VLDs like to me loaded into the Lands. Is that what we're asking for with this design?

                              With the weights we're proposing, I don't think loading into the lands will be feasible. At least not loading it to feed from AR15 mags.
                              Last edited by cory; 09-22-2014, 03:53 PM.
                              "Those who sacrifice liberty for security, deserve neither." Benjamin Franklin

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                              • WHITEBULL
                                Bloodstained
                                • Aug 2013
                                • 43

                                #90
                                A high BC, lower weight, 85 - 100gr pill, in copper, is perfect for us in the Republic of Cali. I was hoping the steel case Wolfe ammo was at least part of the equation, but I wouldn't know, yet. Still waiting. Not trying to shake things up or anything, I'll commit to 750 rds.

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