264LBC Max OAL and Accuracy Comparison

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  • NugginFutz
    Chieftain
    • Aug 2013
    • 2622

    #16
    Here are my thoughts on the LNL system:

    Seating the LNL "special" case can only be accomplished by "ramming it home", and then possibly seated more firmly with a slight twist. It's also possible to seat the case with a light tap on the holding tube. Does this approximate a bolt slamming a case into battery? Probably not. But it should not matter that much, as the case does not compress into the chamber, and can (should) be held firmly in the chamber while establishing the bullet seating depth.

    My concern about the LNL lies in a different area, though. I am not comfortable with the Hornady-provided case being used as part the final measurement. That is because it is not a fire formed case, which is what we all end up reloading (past the first loading of new brass). Most of the people I've heard from who've posted their findings have reported some case lengthening, even after resizing, over the factory fresh case length (as measured to the shoulder datum line). This means that the Hornady LNL case will render COAL numbers a few thousandths shorter than if a fire-formed case had been used.

    Is this a distinction with a difference? It's difficult to say so, with 100% certainty, but the difference is there, unless you always resize your fired brass to match the Hornady LNL case within .001" or .002".

    This is one of the reasons why I've begun using the Sinclair tool, which relies on a fired case for its measurements. Although the case is seated in much the same way as with the LNL tool, it was formed in the target chamber and has a more accurate overall case length (again, as measured to the shoulder datum line).

    The only other method I am aware of to determine COAL involves a tool similar to the kit that Franklin Arsenal provides, and utilizes no case at all. It involves a cleaning rod or suitable replacement, a couple of rod clamps, and is used to first measure the face of the closed bolt, and then again to the projectile in the bore. This method, however, does not account for headspace. Again, one can ask if this is this a distinction without a difference?

    Any way you stack it, though, choose one method and don't mix your results. When you get your COAL, common practice is to start at least .020" off the lands, and your groups will tell you what the rifle likes. If you find yourself approaching the max COAL, caution should be exercised and pressure/velocity should be carefully monitored.

    THAT is my story and I'm sticking to it.
    If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?

    Comment

    • bigbear_98
      Warrior
      • Aug 2013
      • 304

      #17
      I've noticed and thought about what you are saying Nuggin. I posted something about it a while back but don't always explain myself well and no one ever responded about it.

      In my experience, the brass gets bigger than the chamber as it is extracted in a gas gun. I have to bump it down to get it to fit back in the chamber.

      I personally played with this in a 223. I sized the brass, tried to chamber, resize, chamber, etc etc until it fit and extracted smoothly. I then bumped it a a few thousandths more. The rounds fit in a wilson gauge. The case is always bigger than the hornady piece.

      It's extreme in my bolt rifle. The chamber is much longer than the hornady piece and I only bump the fired brass .003" when resizing. If I used the LNL it wouldn't be anywhere near where I need to be.

      Comment

      • LRRPF52
        Super Moderator
        • Sep 2014
        • 8600

        #18
        Great points gents. Somehow, I have been able to get along just fine by using my chamber as my gauge, which was advice I also noticed from LR1955.

        It's more of a pain to load dummy cases long, color them, then see where the lands are, but it doesn't lie to you that way.
        NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

        CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

        6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

        www.AR15buildbox.com

        Comment

        • bigbear_98
          Warrior
          • Aug 2013
          • 304

          #19
          That's what I have done with 3 different bolt guns (22-250, 308, 270.), but after I started reading about the LNL, I thought it would be a good tool. It has its uses, but I don't use it now.

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          • rickOshay
            Warrior
            • Apr 2012
            • 784

            #20
            Nuggin - you can send Hornady fired brass and they will make the gauge for you. If I remember right, they charged me $15 to make the LNL case from my brass.

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            • NugginFutz
              Chieftain
              • Aug 2013
              • 2622

              #21
              Good to know, ros, and I would have probably done so, if I hadn't purchased the Sinclair tool, already. I already have fired cases for each caliber I care to find COAL for, and it works with all my bolt and gas guns.
              If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?

              Comment

              • DRandi
                Bloodstained
                • Jul 2013
                • 78

                #22
                Sorry I'm a little late to the party and I don't post much but few thoughts I've had. These are just my opinion so you know what they say about opinion's.

                I have been around on this site, the 6.8 forum, and AR15 which these were both born out of back in 07, or was it 06, any who, so I remember all the real ugly stuff that this cartridge has endured. Those that were around will agree the rhetoric has died down drastically, but....

                If the OP wants to collect data for a argument on another site for factual information, awesome. But my suggestion is wouldn't it be prudent for us to not bring the flame war links here. If someone wants to provide links in PM's cool, but not in open chat. It really sucks trying to turn friends on to this cartridge and site when this kinda stuff keeps cropping up. It makes us look like a bunch of kids. It also bring up doubt as to do I want to stray away from the good ol tried and trued mil spec 5.56. Myself, I own products from both manufacturing bodies in question but almost didn't own either because of all the static. It's like this on every single forum that certain people post on. You guys need to go get a padded room together and I don't know, kiss and make up, fight to the death, something!!!! It hurts the 6.5 and the sites reputation. Look no further then just some of the replies here in this very thread.

                Ever thought of when the thread is going south to go private chat with the offending party to try and both come to some sort of agreement? I know your gonna say you don't care and it's not worth your time, but seriously. Have you guys seen how much time you have in your post replies? Just look at the nature of this very thread. If the offending party is gonna be pig headed then don't feed the conversation. Turn the OP on to this site to continue a constructive conversation.

                I know this was brought up in another thread, but it fits with the spirit this thread. I think we should be supportive of ALL 6.5 Grendel variants and wildcats. After all is this not suppose to be the definitive source for the 6.5? Grendel II, Grendel I, .264LBC, whatever.... they are all good tools if fitted to the application properly. We need to be the go to source for people looking to get into this awesome round. The more it's out there the more it will spread and grow. The more manufactures see demand the more attention it will get. Lapua could careless if it's going to be a .264LBC, but they do notice if someone is buying the brass. Walmart doesn't care what barrel manufacture it comes out of, they do care how many people ask for it.

                I have worked as a professional auto tech for Mercedes-Benz for almost fifteen years now. I must have twenty different phillips head screw drivers. Do they all do the same thing, yes, but sometimes you want the one that does the best in a specific application. Guns are no different, their tools. Some people say well the SAMMI chamber is the best cause it does X Y Z for them. Wouldn't it be better if my intentions were say, varmint hunting with Hornady 95 VMax's, to direct me to a 6.5 chamber that would maximize my efficiency in that application. Cause the response I see over and over again is...but "the SAMMI chamber is the most accurate for the widest range of bullets". Back to what my original hypothetical question was. Did I ever say I wanted a do it all barrel or a specific application? I say this cause this is one area I think as a 6.5 Grendel community we fall short on. It makes us seem very one sided and not giving the best information to the person asking.

                Ok wall of text out. Feel free to tell me to stick it if need be.

                David
                A nice walk in the woods helps me relax and relieves tension....

                The fact I'm dragging a shovel and a body should be irrelevant...

                Comment

                • montana
                  Chieftain
                  • Jun 2011
                  • 3209

                  #23
                  DRandi, no one is going to tell you to stick it LOL. You are just thinking like an adult, but I have to say there have been times a certain former member needed a punch in the mouth. That is called the child's response. I'm a work in progress.

                  Comment

                  • GLShooter
                    Bloodstained
                    • Sep 2014
                    • 32

                    #24
                    I tend to just measure the distance to the lands and subtract 0.010 or so if I can hit it with the maagzine lenght. If not I just go long. Accuracy seems pretty good in my basic 264 LBC from Black Hole with groups that have trouble going above 1 MOA.

                    I need to start shooting the other varaiants also as I've been tied up with the American 30 on the 6.8 case the past few months. I'll post them up as they come. The 20 will be getting a work out and since I have same same barrels in the 6.8 versions it might be a real interesting shoot out.

                    Greg
                    Last edited by GLShooter; 08-26-2015, 04:10 AM.

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