A-MAX bangs 'em hard! (Are they supposed to explode?)

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  • Mountain Man
    Bloodstained
    • Nov 2014
    • 63

    A-MAX bangs 'em hard! (Are they supposed to explode?)

    110 lb doe taken at 52 yards with 123 A-MAX. (30.3gr CFE 223/Rem 7.5/2.245" OAL) I chronied this round a few days ago with the average around 2375 fps, needless to say at this range it probably impacted at over 2300 fps. My Red Lab is about 102 lbs.

    deer1grendel1.jpg

    The shot hit a little lower (2-3") than I would have liked, both lungs and the heart were hit but the deer still managed to make it 40 yards even with a flat tire. A piece of lead from the base of the bullet was found just under skin on this side, but the actual entry hole was nearly impossible to find.

    deer1grendel2.jpg

    From the looks of the wound channel and the small piece of lead from the base of the round recovered on the entry side, I think the projectile nearly exploded as soon as it made contact with the ribs. There was no large gaping hole on the exit side where all the shoulder damage was done, but I never found a large slug. There were some smaller pieces (.1" chunks at largest) found in several places along the wound channel as well.

    deer1grendel3.jpg

    The heart could have definitely been hit 2-3" inches higher. Shooter used a dead hold on preferred chest kill-zone instead of holding higher. 50 yards is a moot point when you can shoot sub-MOA @ 200 yards right? Wrong. POI @ 50 yards with a 160 yd zero is atleast 2 inches lower. Lesson learned.

    deer1grendel4.jpg

    All this being said I'm not sure what to think about the A-MAX as a hunting cartridge. It performed well in this instance but the bullet's tendency to frag after minimal penetration on a small deer makes me wonder if it would cause superficial wounds on larger deer. Further experimentation is required.

    Unrelated Side note: Does anyone have the numbers for CFE 223 that I need to plug into QuickLoad to create a new powder and use it in QuickLoad? PM me please.
    Last edited by Mountain Man; 11-30-2014, 02:20 AM. Reason: need powder data
    "Bugout bag?..What's that? Is that all the junk you sidewalk commandos plan on humping when the SHTF? I'll grab a Nylon 66, a box of 22s and a poncho liner and in less than a week I will have all of your stuff and everything else that I need for the duration."
  • Double Naught Spy
    Chieftain
    • Sep 2013
    • 2570

    #2
    Well, yes, sometimes they really do explode, maybe more often than not.
    Kill a hog. Save the planet.
    My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

    Comment

    • lrgrendel
      Warrior
      • Jul 2013
      • 662

      #3
      Nice photos and good report.

      Leaving for PA tomorrow with LAPUA Naturalis for 3 or 4 days. We will see.....

      Comment

      • VASCAR2
        Chieftain
        • Mar 2011
        • 6227

        #4
        The A-Max first design goal was accuracy and this is why Hornady introduced the SST with cannelure to help hold the core in the jacket. I think any deer can run if not hit in the central nervous system but I think a lot of it depends on whether the deer is on alert or completely unaware. After water testing I think any traditional cup and core bullet can fail to completely pass through deer depending on location and angle of entry. To garuntee a pass through I think a solid bullet like Barnes TTSX or 100 or 125 grain Nosler Partitions might be required. Of course this is my opinion and others may have different observations.

        Comment

        • BjornF16
          Chieftain
          • Jun 2011
          • 1825

          #5
          Originally posted by lrgrendel View Post
          Nice photos and good report.

          Leaving for PA tomorrow with LAPUA Naturalis for 3 or 4 days. We will see.....
          Please give us an update on Naturalis...I've been contemplating this bullet for my bolt gun...
          LIFE member: NRA, TSRA, SAF, GOA
          Defend the Constitution and our 2A Rights!

          Comment

          • BjornF16
            Chieftain
            • Jun 2011
            • 1825

            #6
            Originally posted by VASCAR2 View Post
            I think any deer can run if not hit in the central nervous system...
            ^^^This^^^. There is still O2 in brain and muscles that can be utilized for a short period of time...I like CNS shots inside 100yds.

            I've moved away from "exploding" bullets like Bergers and A-Max for hunting meat as I don't like the lead scattered throughout the meat. I had a Berger 115 hit bone and end up fragmenting through guts, etc. I prefer the solids, partitions or bonded bullets now...
            LIFE member: NRA, TSRA, SAF, GOA
            Defend the Constitution and our 2A Rights!

            Comment

            • Mountain Man
              Bloodstained
              • Nov 2014
              • 63

              #7
              Originally posted by BjornF16 View Post
              ^^^This^^^. There is still O2 in brain and muscles that can be utilized for a short period of time...I like CNS shots inside 100yds.

              I've moved away from "exploding" bullets like Bergers and A-Max for hunting meat as I don't like the lead scattered throughout the meat. I had a Berger 115 hit bone and end up fragmenting through guts, etc. I prefer the solids, partitions or bonded bullets now...

              I have some Lehigh Defense Brass bullets on my list. TTSX is the next logical step after those but with the Lehigh's @ $29.99/100 Bullets, it's a really hard price to beat. If they work.
              "Bugout bag?..What's that? Is that all the junk you sidewalk commandos plan on humping when the SHTF? I'll grab a Nylon 66, a box of 22s and a poncho liner and in less than a week I will have all of your stuff and everything else that I need for the duration."

              Comment

              • rickOshay
                Warrior
                • Apr 2012
                • 784

                #8
                Originally posted by lrgrendel View Post
                Nice photos and good report.

                Leaving for PA tomorrow with LAPUA Naturalis for 3 or 4 days. We will see.....
                Can't wait for your report. Hoping you'll be able to recover one (unlikely). Fingers crossed.

                Comment

                • Double Naught Spy
                  Chieftain
                  • Sep 2013
                  • 2570

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  I have some Lehigh Defense Brass bullets on my list. TTSX is the next logical step after those but with the Lehigh's @ $29.99/100 Bullets, it's a really hard price to beat. If they work.
                  Controlled chaos???? The bel tests are impressive, but the only pics I can find online of real world results are underwhelming (when compared to the gel tests), though I don't doubt they would work.
                  Kill a hog. Save the planet.
                  My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

                  Comment

                  • Mountain Man
                    Bloodstained
                    • Nov 2014
                    • 63

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
                    Controlled chaos???? The bel tests are impressive, but the only pics I can find online of real world results are underwhelming (when compared to the gel tests), though I don't doubt they would work.
                    I've been finding similar results, I still want to try them. Deer season ends tomorrow so if I can get some loaded soon, potential wet targets would be coyotes, bobcat, mountain lions, and of course, wolves. It'll take a big wolf to get any data relevant to deer, but specimens have been taken in the 200lb+ range, so this is possible. I'm fairly certain that the 95gr Controlled Chaos will perform just as well as any other projectile in the 95-100 gr range on the smaller species, except for a REALLY big cat. Again I'm more interested in them because of their price point. The .458 controlled fracturing has really got my attention as a possible subsonic .458 SOCOM round. All 510 grains of it.

                    These guys seem like they can be talked into making just about any projectile due to their production style. I think we need to push 'em for some more variety in .264 pills. Group buy maybe?
                    "Bugout bag?..What's that? Is that all the junk you sidewalk commandos plan on humping when the SHTF? I'll grab a Nylon 66, a box of 22s and a poncho liner and in less than a week I will have all of your stuff and everything else that I need for the duration."

                    Comment

                    • Double Naught Spy
                      Chieftain
                      • Sep 2013
                      • 2570

                      #11
                      Well let us know how they turn out.

                      Here is one example I found.
                      The most popular and widely respected voice in America for your gun rights, breaking 2nd Amendment news, and everything else you need to know as a gun owner...


                      The round failed to overpenetrate, though the ballistics tests (various calibers) all have the base of the projectile flying out of the gel tests or into the 2nd or 3rd blocks of gel for some apparent amazing penetration, and yet it failed to overpenetrate an itty bitty buck.

                      I understand some folks want all the energy 'dumped' in the carcass. I want an exit wound since I mostly hunt hogs. With that said, if the rounds did the damage shown in the gel tests with long and very wide wound channels, I would be very happy as well. That just didn't appear to be shown on that little buck. The heart was messed up, no doubt, but you can get that with a lot of ammo. I expected to see the interior of the ribs all shredded or at least speckled with shrapnel. Dead is dead, but the real world performance there just didn't equate with the amazing results of gel tests.
                      Kill a hog. Save the planet.
                      My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

                      Comment

                      • jurassic
                        Warrior
                        • Sep 2014
                        • 246

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        I have some Lehigh Defense Brass bullets on my list. TTSX is the next logical step after those but with the Lehigh's @ $29.99/100 Bullets, it's a really hard price to beat. If they work.
                        The 100 grn TTSX works exceedingly well in the Grendel for hunting and shoot fantastic groups to boot.

                        Comment

                        • lrgrendel
                          Warrior
                          • Jul 2013
                          • 662

                          #13
                          Originally posted by lrgrendel View Post
                          Nice photos and good report.

                          Leaving for PA tomorrow with LAPUA Naturalis for 3 or 4 days. We will see.....
                          Guys. I didn't make it clear. Sorry.

                          No semi auto for hunting in PA so can't use my Grendel. I am shooting the Naturalis, but out of a Remington 700 in 308.

                          If I "score" I will post a report if any one is interested. I realize this is a "Grendel" forum!!

                          Comment

                          • Blacklab
                            Warrior
                            • Mar 2012
                            • 365

                            #14
                            Congrats on the freezer filler.
                            Hey I'm not a complete idiot I have parts missing. Though some times I wonder.

                            Grendellizing predators as of the fall of 2012.

                            Small bullets that go really fast, make me giggle...........

                            Comment

                            • Mountain Man
                              Bloodstained
                              • Nov 2014
                              • 63

                              #15
                              Originally posted by lrgrendel View Post
                              Guys. I didn't make it clear. Sorry.

                              No semi auto for hunting in PA so can't use my Grendel. I am shooting the Naturalis, but out of a Remington 700 in 308.

                              If I "score" I will post a report if any one is interested. I realize this is a "Grendel" forum!!
                              Turn off/ Mis-Align/ Block the gas block. Instant Bolt-gun.
                              "Bugout bag?..What's that? Is that all the junk you sidewalk commandos plan on humping when the SHTF? I'll grab a Nylon 66, a box of 22s and a poncho liner and in less than a week I will have all of your stuff and everything else that I need for the duration."

                              Comment

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