Who actually uses the SAAMI reamer on AR barrels?

[smokinghole]

Are you saying your accuracy is a result of the SAAMI chamber or that Lilja makes great barrels? You may have only ranked as 2nd Lt Obvious based on my interpretative skills. Funny right?

[LRRPF52]

[LRRPF52]

Short answer: Lilja makes superb barrels, and the SAAMI chamber helps shoot a wide range of pills accurately. In the end, the shooter is the biggest factor, but I want the best I can get as a shooter.

[smokinghole]

Do you own a non-SAAMI? Just playing devils advocate.

A chamber that shoots 160 different projectiles at different weights and lengths must be magic. In my life experience one size fits all while potentially convenient will come up short for enough applications that would guide me towards something more specialized. I don't plan on launching anything smaller than 100gr bullets, and likely not lighter than 120. The sweet spot seems to be in the 120gr range of bullets. If I wanted fast varmint rounds I would probably go for a smaller and faster cartridge. 556 and 6.8 come to mind. To me this round is ideal for medium to long range. I am new to it and almost left it behind because of the borderline elitist lecturing about how awesome the SAAMI chamber is and how I should drop $800 or more on a 1/4 moa barrel. Its weird when the other chambers are obviously just fine shooters if not just as accurate.

I see you post the low bullet weight argument with the SAAMI chamber alot. How often do you load varmint bullets to make that virtue valuable? You seem to push the 1000yd capability of your builds and I know you aren't doing that with short varmint projectiles.

Its almost like I am being shunned for not going SAAMI. I thought this forum of 6.5 grendel enthusiasts would be happy another person was using the cartridge whether its .264lbc or Grendel II. Seems to not be the case though. Am I sone kind of infidel since I chose to save serious coin? The $ saved will buy me a modest loading setup (prob lee classic turret) and ammo/components.

[PigOPs]

Honestly. I'm sure your barrel with shoot one hole groups if you find a good load. I feel like the sentiment around here is that Bill A worked so hard on the design that it needs to be both celebrated and protected. I have both. Many on here do. Your barrel will be fantastic... As will the one I ordered. Haha.

ETA: there's a pic somewhere on here with a one hole 5 shot group out of one of the .264LBC group buy barrels.

[NugginFutz]

Its almost like I am being shunned for not going SAAMI. I thought this forum of 6.5 grendel enthusiasts would be happy another person was using the cartridge whether its .264lbc or Grendel II. Seems to not be the case though. Am I sone kind of infidel since I chose to save serious coin? The $ saved will buy me a modest loading setup (prob lee classic turret) and ammo/components.

Sorry you're feeling that way, smokinghole. My experience has been quite the opposite. There is no cash register at the end of the line, and nobody here is on commission. There are many of the horde who don't even own a SAAMI grendel, including yours truly. I've been made to feel nothing but welcome, and that has nothing to do with my choice of chambering. There have been a few who have tried to make hay out of some genuine concerns for people's safety, but I have yet to see any genuine elitism. (Pride in product? Yes. Snobbery? No.)

Having said that, there are a variety of opinions here, same as anywhere. Some believe the compound throat is better, whereas others prefer the conventional throat. Ultimately, though, the Ford v. Chevy stuff ends when someone has a need or is looking for technical help. I've never once seen someone stop trying to help if they discovered an "infidel", nor have I seen anyone being told their rifle was crap.

If I had any advice at all, I'd suggest pm'ing whoever is giving you that impression and clearing the air. You might be surprised how nice the people around here can be.

[bwaites]

Having had both, I found that the 264 LBC, (I've had 2 different barrels, one of them a Lilja) is simply pickier to load for. The LBC's tend to like longer bullets, but I did find a blazer load with a 107 Sierra.

I can load most bullets to mag length in the SAAMI chamber, and almost every bullet between 95 grains and 129 grains (thats the heaviest I've shot) will go under 1 MOA.

There is nothing wrong with the LBC chamber, just think of it as a tighter, more bench rest type chamber that requires a little more work to find the best load. I like working up loads, so I have no issues with that.

Many shooters are new to AR type accurate rifles, and most of us want them to have as easy a time as possible when they try to shoot the tiny groups the Grendel is capable of. The SAAMI chamber seems to make that more possible earlier in their experience.

When I started shooting the Grendel years ago, 6.5 bullets that were in the weight range were tough to come by, so I loaded everything I could find between 85 and 129 grains. Most shot well. At one point, with my first Grendel, I shot every factory load available into groups that were sub MOA. (Well, except for Wolf Soft points, which were crappy).

I actually don't want that chamber in a bolt gun, because I think that you probably need a deeper throat to get the absolute most out of what a bolt gun can do, and I would load especially for it, but others feel differently, and I'll buy whatever ends up being built and change barrels if I can't get what I want out of what comes standard.

[smokinghole]

If this group is okay with non-SAAMI chambers I would expect to see more referrals to new people looking to build to more cost effective options. Instead because there are no sub $400 saami options people seem to be guided to $700-$800 barrels. Thats great if you guys have the passion/dedication to drop the coin on that steel. I am a professional brewer at the moment, means average labor wages in manufacturing. So without means I am trying to build a decent rifle but sensibly spending. I may be able to pay $1500 between the barrel and upper but I woumwould rather save the extra for other things.

There seems to be a lot of self contradictory statements made here. That is unless a compound throat is in fact magic. Using common sense and reasoning every chamber type has its preferred rounds. That includes the lauded compound throat so it seems. I am just pointing out the one sidedness for the SAAMI and how loading for your chamber still applies. Unless like i said, the magic makes it special. We use magic water at work, so its possible here too.

[Sputnik]

Sorry you're feeling that way, smokinghole. My experience has been quite the opposite. There is no cash register at the end of the line, and nobody here is on commission. There are many of the horde who don't even own a SAAMI grendel, including yours truly. I've been made to feel nothing but welcome, and that has nothing to do with my choice of chambering. There have been a few who have tried to make hay out of some genuine concerns for people's safety, but I have yet to see any genuine elitism. (Pride in product? Yes. Snobbery? No.)

Having said that, there are a variety of opinions here, same as anywhere. Some believe the compound throat is better, whereas others prefer the conventional throat. Ultimately, though, the Ford v. Chevy stuff ends when someone has a need or is looking for technical help. I've never once seen someone stop trying to help if they discovered an "infidel", nor have I seen anyone being told their rifle was crap.

If I had any advice at all, I'd suggest pm'ing whoever is giving you that impression and clearing the air. You might be surprised how nice the people around here can be.

+1 on this smokinghole. I have received nothing but great guidance and advice from the members here. I have a Lilja group buy barrel just like you got, only I got mine from a group buyer. The guy went and got a replacement barrel and sold me his non spec barrel. He shot great groups with it. I haven't shot my build yet, but I am expecting great results. Several others on this forum have reported super range reports with their 264LBC Lilja barrels and I don't recall anybody being shunned or criticized. I also have a Precision Firearms Neptune V upper with a Bartlein barrel. As one would expect it shoots great. I also have a Liberty group buy barrel that I expected to be a SAAMI Grendel but would jam factory 123 Amax and SST ammo into the lands. It was returned for scraping. I am sure you have heard/read the history of that fiasco and the hard feelings and opinions that adventure created. The big issue there for me was the buyers not receiving what they felt they bought, and the lack of satisfactory answers. Yet many of those barrels shoot like a bargain barrels should. You were warned in another Forum not to drink this cult's Kool-Aid. So read, ask questions, learn, think for yourself, decide for yourself, be happy, and don't drink their beverage either.

[Klem]

Do you own a non-SAAMI?

Its almost like I am being shunned for not going SAAMI. I thought this forum of 6.5 grendel enthusiasts would be happy another person was using the cartridge whether its .264lbc or Grendel II. Seems to not be the case though. Am I sone kind of infidel since I chose to save serious coin? The $ saved will buy me a modest loading setup (prob lee classic turret) and ammo/components.

Yes, I have a Lilja barrel from the first group-buy. I understand they are non-SAAMI chambers but it shoots fine. Given it shoots to my definition of accurate I did not on principle exercise Dan's generous offer of a new barrel.

My spare barrel is a Shilen which is a SAAMI throat. I have yet to fit it and shoot so cannot comment on any comparison. Note everyone, I have one of each so please don't stone me to death. Jokes aside, no-one really cares what chamber you have and only care about what they have. Some care more than others (and are entitled to) but I don't see anything more than robust discussion here about chamber dimensions. Certainly professional enough to be concentrating on the merits of respective arguments rather than the person behind it.

As long as forum members see chambers for what they are, just metal holes, and not some friendship/loyalty proxy then we can all calmly compare, and benefit from combined experience. Bearing in mind all research is biased just extract the information you need and ignore the rest.

[smokinghole]

I'm not a coolaid drinker. I ended up here and looking on three other forums about information about this cartridge. I ended up here thinking it'd have the most information but I quickly began to realize that this forum generally is a fan of a specific chamber design over it just being a cartridge. It was the performance numbers of a bullet and cartridge combo that attracted me to this round not a throat design. Then due to the massive amount of bickering on both sides of the issue I almost said "screw the grendel" plus my modest budget had an influence.

I for the life of me cannot understand why a chamber design needs to be protected and celebrated. There are swiss army knives out there with 100 things on the knife. Sure sometimes the screw driver on the knife is convenient but there are times you would much rather a real screw driver. Sure the magnifying glass is possibly convenient but a real magnifying glass would be better, and so on. Just because something was designed a certain way at a certain time for certain reasons doesn't mean it always has to be that way. Improvements on products can be an advancement to a more complicated design or a more simple design, it happens both ways. Sometimes an "improvement" isn't viewed as an improvement to everyone and that's fine. I'm not saying the compound throat is anything good or bad to me, I just didn't buy one because I got a deal on something else.

[PigOPs]

I'm not a coolaid drinker. I ended up here and looking on three other forums about information about this cartridge. I ended up here thinking it'd have the most information but I quickly began to realize that this forum generally is a fan of a specific chamber design over it just being a cartridge. It was the performance numbers of a bullet and cartridge combo that attracted me to this round not a throat design. Then due to the massive amount of bickering on both sides of the issue I almost said "screw the grendel" plus my modest budget had an influence.

I for the life of me cannot understand why a chamber design needs to be protected and celebrated. There are swiss army knives out there with 100 things on the knife. Sure sometimes the screw driver on the knife is convenient but there are times you would much rather a real screw driver. Sure the magnifying glass is possibly convenient but a real magnifying glass would be better, and so on. Just because something was designed a certain way at a certain time for certain reasons doesn't mean it always has to be that way. Improvements on products can be an advancement to a more complicated design or a more simple design, it happens both ways. Sometimes an "improvement" isn't viewed as an improvement to everyone and that's fine. I'm not saying the compound throat is anything good or bad to me, I just didn't buy one because I got a deal on something else.

I've read back through this to see what has you in such a tizzy... A few people explained to you why THEY stay with the SAAMI chamber but there seem to be more that say they shoot both or that they've had both in the past. The LBC is a fine chamber and you will be happy. Chill out man, no need to justify your decision. You got a great deal on a great barrel.

[LRRPF52]

If this group is okay with non-SAAMI chambers I would expect to see more referrals to new people looking to build to more cost effective options. Instead because there are no sub $400 saami options people seem to be guided to $700-$800 barrels. Thats great if you guys have the passion/dedication to drop the coin on that steel. I am a professional brewer at the moment, means average labor wages in manufacturing. So without means I am trying to build a decent rifle but sensibly spending. I may be able to pay $1500 between the barrel and upper but I woumwould rather save the extra for other things.

There seems to be a lot of self contradictory statements made here. That is unless a compound throat is in fact magic. Using common sense and reasoning every chamber type has its preferred rounds. That includes the lauded compound throat so it seems. I am just pointing out the one sidedness for the SAAMI and how loading for your chamber still applies. Unless like i said, the magic makes it special. We use magic water at work, so its possible here too.

This thread title was about who makes SAAMI-chambered barrels. People asked about the chamber differences, and what contributes to accuracy. A lot of people have had variant chambers and have been members on the forum dating back to the old forum. I have not seen any sense of elitism. I'm also unfamiliar with the $700-$800 barrels you are referring to.

I paid $269 for my first AA barrel/bolt combo ordered from Midway in 2009. I didn't know anything about the chamber dimensions, other than it was a 6.5mm based on a more forward shoulder location off the PPC case, which is a renowned benchrest cartridge.

Back then, AA was carefully controlling the licensing of 6.5 Grendel Reamers to barrel makers who were willing to hold a certain standard, since it was a wildcat, and SAAMI certification was still on the horizon.

Bill A. has said himself that he's happy with more people shooting the cartridge, especially so when their rifles will reliably feed factory ammunition. That helps the cartridge in the long run.

I don't know about magic, but the compound throat works as advertised in my guns. When people ask for more economical barrels, I personally refer them to several sources, including barrels with a variant chamber in the sub-$300 range. I even sold a Grendel starter kit here through the site with reloading dies, our reloading handbooks, shell holder, mags, and a Brownell's barrel/bolt combo.

There are people who own .264 LBC barrels that were advertised as 6.5 Grendel. They feed and fire factory ammo just fine. There are others that have had problems. I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this, but there is no exclusionary environment on the forum based on what chamber someone owns. Heck, there are people on the forum that don't even own an AR15 (can't), or don't own a 6.5 Grendel, and are great contributing members.

[LRRPF52]

I'm not a coolaid drinker. I ended up here and looking on three other forums about information about this cartridge. I ended up here thinking it'd have the most information but I quickly began to realize that this forum generally is a fan of a specific chamber design over it just being a cartridge. It was the performance numbers of a bullet and cartridge combo that attracted me to this round not a throat design. Then due to the massive amount of bickering on both sides of the issue I almost said "screw the grendel" plus my modest budget had an influence.

I for the life of me cannot understand why a chamber design needs to be protected and celebrated. There are swiss army knives out there with 100 things on the knife. Sure sometimes the screw driver on the knife is convenient but there are times you would much rather a real screw driver. Sure the magnifying glass is possibly convenient but a real magnifying glass would be better, and so on. Just because something was designed a certain way at a certain time for certain reasons doesn't mean it always has to be that way. Improvements on products can be an advancement to a more complicated design or a more simple design, it happens both ways. Sometimes an "improvement" isn't viewed as an improvement to everyone and that's fine. I'm not saying the compound throat is anything good or bad to me, I just didn't buy one because I got a deal on something else.

A chamber design needs to be protected in any cartridge so that factory ammunition will work in it when the shooter goes to chamber a round of ammunition and fire. That's why we have SAAMI. People are welcome to play around with, produce, wildcat, and tinker with other chamber designs. The protection of specific chambers is so the customer doesn't end up with a gun that won't shoot factory ammo.

[Variable]

I'm not a coolaid drinker. I ended up here and looking on three other forums about information about this cartridge. I ended up here thinking it'd have the most information but I quickly began to realize that this forum generally is a fan of a specific chamber design over it just being a cartridge. It was the performance numbers of a bullet and cartridge combo that attracted me to this round not a throat design. Then due to the massive amount of bickering on both sides of the issue I almost said "screw the grendel" plus my modest budget had an influence.

I for the life of me cannot understand why a chamber design needs to be protected and celebrated. There are swiss army knives out there with 100 things on the knife. Sure sometimes the screw driver on the knife is convenient but there are times you would much rather a real screw driver. Sure the magnifying glass is possibly convenient but a real magnifying glass would be better, and so on. Just because something was designed a certain way at a certain time for certain reasons doesn't mean it always has to be that way. Improvements on products can be an advancement to a more complicated design or a more simple design, it happens both ways. Sometimes an "improvement" isn't viewed as an improvement to everyone and that's fine. I'm not saying the compound throat is anything good or bad to me, I just didn't buy one because I got a deal on something else.

Enjoy your barrel. I won't hate on you because you picked something different from me.