6.5 Grendel Caribou Harvest

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  • 81police
    Warrior
    • Feb 2013
    • 286

    #31
    I think it's all a matter of preference, the type of animal you hunt, and the preferred shot placement. Hogs are my favorite animal to hunt, and I don't take head/neck shots, I always try to center punch square through the shoulder. For this reason I value penetration and consistent expansion, so I shoot the 120 TSX almost exclusively.

    The largest hog I've ever shot had a chest girth of 50 inches, this equates to his body diameter (in the vitals) of nearly 16 inches. And not 16" of ballistic gel, but heavy hide, muscle, bones, etc. That particular TSX poked two holes in him and he went down very quick. When I see how these bullets consistently pass through even the heaviest of hogs, I'm always convinced even with an extreme quartering shot, that the bullet is hitting vitals.

    A lot of guys take center neck or head shots on hogs, in that case the TSX's penetration probably isn't as crucial! Just ask Double Naught, he's slayed half of Montague County's hogs with 123 SST's!
    John 11:25-26

    Comment

    • BlueDuck
      Unwashed
      • Feb 2015
      • 24

      #32
      Originally posted by LRRPF52 View Post
      From a 16" barrel, with a 2650fps mv, you hit expansion threshold at 275yds with the 100gr TTSX. Same thing with the 120gr TSX. They both have over 29" of expansion through Permagel at 2000fps impact speed, with between .410-.416" expansion at that speed. This is all in the Terminal Ballistics section of Volume II.

      Some other premium bullets with similar or lower expansion thresholds are:

      120gr GMX
      129gr ABLR

      The Berger 130 VLD has proven to perform very well on even large game at extreme long range from the larger capacity magnums, namely the 6.5 SAUM 4S, and George Gardner specifically prefers that bullet for his long range hunting due to its accuracy and predictable performance at a wide range of speeds.

      The 130gr Berger from an 18" Grendel has been used to take several large Mule deer and puts them down very well.

      I'm interested to see what the 129gr ABLR does, since it is rated down to 1300fps expansion.
      In that case, it looks like my Grendel will be my go to caribou rifle (if I'm still up here next year)...and I'll stick with the 120 grain Barnes bullets as long as I can find them. I do recall seeing the VLD bullet in stores up here as well, but the thought never crossed my mind to use them as a hunting bullet.

      I'm trying to talk myself into a AR 10 pattern rifle for larger critters such as moose and bears (in a pinch/as needed). I wish there was a way to squeeze a bit more performance out of the Grendel, but I suspect the 7.62 NATO or 6.5 Remington will be the next step up for the larger critters.

      Thanks so much for y'alls feedback!

      Comment

      • LRRPF52
        Super Moderator
        • Sep 2014
        • 8569

        #33
        The Berger Hunting VLD.

        Literally millions of moose in Scandinavia have been killed with 6.5x55 Mauser. It's one of the better performers on them, with .458 Win Mag and .45-70 having the least travel distance from the shot, 6.5 and 7mm having the most efficient performance when considering recoil, and .308 and .30-06 having the longest travel distances from the shot, resulting in the worst performance across the allowed calibers in Norway, Sweden, and Finland.

        I think a lot of this has to do with being able to shoot a rifle well, which comes from practice, which is easier with lower recoil. In my mind, a 180gr from a .30-06 should exhibit great performance on moose, but there is increased muzzle blast and recoil, leading to flinching or fatigue when you try to shoot them in volume.

        Not so with a 6.5mm and many 7mm's, although 7mm Mags are pushing into a bit of recoil.

        Bob Stokes had an interesting experience with the 6.5x55 Mauser when some Scandinavian clients came to hunt at the outfit he guided from on the Brooks Range in Alaska. He had some really bad experiences with customers who brought .243's, so when he saw the 6.5x55, he thought the same thing would happen, leading to long nights, looking for wounded game.

        These guys with the 6.5x55's then proceeded to drop everything they pointed their rifles at, with boring predictability, even on big game.

        Nearly always complete penetration with the animal either dropping on the spot or going down within sight. That season in Alaska forever changed what I thought I knew about big game rifles and created a soft spot in my heart for the 6.5 bore.
        Bob Stokes, 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbook, page ix

        When comparing my 16" Grendel to my 22" .260 Remington AR10 (14lbs), I have about 200yds less performance with the Grendel. That's comparing hot hand loads for the .260 with factory 123gr A-MAX in the little Grendel.

        I would try some BL-C(2) or CFE with the 120gr TSX or 120gr GMX and see what speed you can achieve. Hornady's data for the 120gr GMX from an 18" AA AR15 indicates they reached 2500fps with the 120gr GMX with CFE.

        The 120gr GMX at 2450fps mv from a 16" barrel will still be going over 2000fps at 300yds, and has a 250yd Point Blank Range with a 200yd zero. The 120gr GMX and 120gr TSX behave more like a 140gr, are longer than a lot of 140gr pills, and just don't lose any weight, other than the tip of the 120gr GMX, so you still have 99% - 100% weight retention. Even with a quartering shot, they are going through within 300yds. Even at 400yds, I think both will easily pass through with a broadside. At 400yds, the 120gr GMX from a 16" barrel is still going Mach 1.69 (1887fps), which is screaming fast, and a monolithic bullet that really likes to expand with no weight loss.
        Last edited by LRRPF52; 03-13-2015, 07:41 PM.
        NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

        CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

        6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

        www.AR15buildbox.com

        Comment

        • BlueDuck
          Unwashed
          • Feb 2015
          • 24

          #34
          I've talked myself into and out of swapping out my 16" barrel for a 20" (or longer) barrel several times. The 16" barrel is so handy down in the lower 48 when hunting out of ground blinds or climbing stands. And not much performance is gained by moving up to the longer barrel (maybe 50 more yards of "usable" energy and velocity).

          But up here I think that extra barrel lenght would be useful. If my current 16" barrel wasn't so darn accurate I would have swapped it out a year ago. All that said, 300 yards is about as far as I'm willing to comfortablely shoot at game.

          I wonder if anyone has harvested a moose with a Gendel?

          Comment

          • feetpiece
            Unwashed
            • Oct 2014
            • 6

            #35
            Originally posted by BlueDuck View Post
            I've talked myself into and out of swapping out my 16" barrel for a 20" (or longer) barrel several times. The 16" barrel is so handy down in the lower 48 when hunting out of ground blinds or climbing stands. And not much performance is gained by moving up to the longer barrel (maybe 50 more yards of "usable" energy and velocity).

            But up here I think that extra barrel lenght would be useful. If my current 16" barrel wasn't so darn accurate I would have swapped it out a year ago. All that said, 300 yards is about as far as I'm willing to comfortablely shoot at game.

            I wonder if anyone has harvested a moose with a Gendel?
            I fully intend to this year with my Grendel -> http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...ght=dall+sheep

            Reborn in a FDE Aero Upper/Lower

            Comment

            • BlueDuck
              Unwashed
              • Feb 2015
              • 24

              #36
              Here is another hair brained idea: I'm going to try to hunt goats on Kodiak this summer. I think I mentioned earlier that I have. .338 Win Mag that I used to harvest a caribou with two years ago. I think the grendel would be fine for goats inside of 300 yards. Additionally, I'm not comfortable shooting my .338 at that small of a target beyond 300 yards. I might have to start working up some more TSX loads for my rifle. I think the weight savings of M4gery Grendel vs my .338 (while climbing to get above the goats) would be well worth the trade off.

              Comment

              • LRRPF52
                Super Moderator
                • Sep 2014
                • 8569

                #37
                Another thing you can do to make the AR15 even more compact is use the LWRC UCIW Ultra Compact Stock. I installed one recently and they are really squared away.



                NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                www.AR15buildbox.com

                Comment

                • BlueDuck
                  Unwashed
                  • Feb 2015
                  • 24

                  #38
                  Originally posted by LRRPF52 View Post
                  Another thing you can do to make the AR15 even more compact is use the LWRC UCIW Ultra Compact Stock. I installed one recently and they are really squared away.



                  Any recommendations for a lite weight free float rail? I have a Yankee Hill Machine free float tube mounted currently. It is pretty heavy. I installed many years ago. I suspect there are better options that weigh less.

                  Comment

                  • LRRPF52
                    Super Moderator
                    • Sep 2014
                    • 8569

                    #39
                    Lightweight handguards:

                    AA MK10 Carbon Fiber
                    AP Customs Carbon Fiber
                    BCM KMR
                    MI Gen II SS Aluminum
                    MI Gen II Keymod Aluminum
                    NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                    CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                    6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                    www.AR15buildbox.com

                    Comment

                    • bwaites
                      Moderator
                      • Mar 2011
                      • 4445

                      #40
                      Originally posted by BlueDuck View Post
                      I've talked myself into and out of swapping out my 16" barrel for a 20" (or longer) barrel several times. The 16" barrel is so handy down in the lower 48 when hunting out of ground blinds or climbing stands. And not much performance is gained by moving up to the longer barrel (maybe 50 more yards of "usable" energy and velocity).

                      But up here I think that extra barrel lenght would be useful. If my current 16" barrel wasn't so darn accurate I would have swapped it out a year ago. All that said, 300 yards is about as far as I'm willing to comfortablely shoot at game.

                      I wonder if anyone has harvested a moose with a Gendel?
                      There used to be a picture on the AA website of a Gredelized moose.

                      Comment

                      • BlueDuck
                        Unwashed
                        • Feb 2015
                        • 24

                        #41
                        Originally posted by LRRPF52 View Post
                        Lightweight handguards:

                        AA MK10 Carbon Fiber
                        AP Customs Carbon Fiber
                        BCM KMR
                        MI Gen II SS Aluminum
                        MI Gen II Keymod Aluminum
                        Thanks!

                        Comment

                        • am4966
                          Chieftain
                          • Jul 2014
                          • 1036

                          #42
                          The SLR Rifleworks Solo Lite and Ultra Lite rails are also a option. They come in Keymod or M-Lok....Plus they have 15% off on select rails right now.
                          12.5" SBR Grendel - Need Barrel
                          Surge - Rugged Suppressor
                          Been a fan of the Grendel from the very beginning and haven't second guessed that choice one time.

                          Aim small, miss small!

                          Comment

                          • BlueDuck
                            Unwashed
                            • Feb 2015
                            • 24

                            #43
                            Originally posted by am4966 View Post
                            The SLR Rifleworks Solo Lite and Ultra Lite rails are also a option. They come in Keymod or M-Lok....Plus they have 15% off on select rails right now.
                            Those things look pretty sharp. Can you comment on the durability of the rail? My current rails (YHM) are pretty bear, but serviceable after extensive use up here. That keymod system looks pretty slick and much more comfortable than rails. Your feedback is greatly appreciated!

                            Comment

                            • am4966
                              Chieftain
                              • Jul 2014
                              • 1036

                              #44
                              Sorry to say I haven't had mine installed yet. I have bet the Solo Lite 11" M-Lok for my sbr build. It's still a work in progress. I've had YHM rail before and I like the very feel of better this rail better. If I can find the reviews I seen I'll link them for your reading pleasure ��
                              12.5" SBR Grendel - Need Barrel
                              Surge - Rugged Suppressor
                              Been a fan of the Grendel from the very beginning and haven't second guessed that choice one time.

                              Aim small, miss small!

                              Comment

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