Grendel LMG

[stanc]

I think the only real environment for the Grendel to gain traction in is amongst the Eastern European Countries that are aware of the Russian threat, while NATO leaves them out to dry. The biggest issue for them is that 5.56, 7.62 NATO, & 7.62x54R are the dominant cartridges in their small arms inventories, with 7.62x39 on its way out in many cases, along with 5.45x39 being displaced by 5.56 NATO. Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Hungary have formed a new military alliance separate from NATO since they see the writing on the wall.

...the biggest and most important factor that would make the Grendel get noticed is if a modern LMG was chambered in it, and shown to provide the same downrange benefits as 7.62 GMPG's such as the PKM and MAG58, only from a much smaller package.

The adoption of the Grendel in Eastern Europe would already have a logistics framework in-place for brass and ammo with Lapua and PPU from the North and South, but weapons and magazines would be the main new items to be purchased. Selling points for budget-strapped countries:

* Longer barrel life
* One-caliber small arms system potential
* Longer weapon life with lower chamber pressures
* Inherent accuracy potential
* Existing framework for ammunition components
* Existing framework for barrel blanks in 6.5mm, a popular European bore
* Existing framework for projectiles

The most recent breath of fresh air is the observation by LRRPF52 that some East European countries might develop an interest in the cartridge. Let's help him pursue that notion and see where it takes us.

Okay. What can we do in that regard?

It looks to me like the only practical option to prove the concept is to Grendelize an RPD light machine gun, then put it up against a vz59 or PKM.

That would be rather expensive, though, so I'd suggest a more modest first step: Buy an RPD belt and see how well (or poorly) 6.5 Grendel rounds fit in it.

IMO, a second (or parallel) step would also seem prudent: Do comparison testing of 6.5 FMJ vs 7.62 FMJ. Comparing barrier penetration and other characteristics would confirm or refute the idea that a 6.5 LMG can deliver the desired performance.

If those steps produce acceptable results, then consideration can be given to acquiring and converting an RPD. (Perhaps a Grendel Guild project? Maybe DSArms could be convinced to help?)

Comments? Other proposals?

[RangerRick]

Here a link to a belt site:

http://www.blackrivermilitaria.com/belts.html

Scroll down to see the RPD belt.

Type Control-+ to zoom in and control-0 to reset the browser to normal size.

[stanc]

Thanks, Rick. Unfortunately, that site is apparently just informational. It says the items shown are not for sale.

But, DSArms lists two 50-rd belts with a drum for $24.95

http://www.dsarms.com/RPD-Drum-And-B...uctinfo/RPDDB/

I haven't found anyplace where one can buy a single RPD belt, let alone a 10-link segment like I'd need here in Kalifornia.

[RangerRick]

Thanks, Rick. Unfortunately, that site is apparently just informational. It says the items shown are not for sale.

But, DSArms lists two 50-rd belts with a drum for $24.95

http://www.dsarms.com/RPD-Drum-And-B...uctinfo/RPDDB/

I haven't found anyplace where one can buy a single RPD belt, let alone a 10-link segment like I'd need here in Kalifornia.

Yeah, that was just for comparison, but the pictures are crappy compared to the ds arms site. The sides of the link don't look terribly sloped so they may work with the Grendel. The part of the link that supports the neck will be very loose, though. Don't know if it will cause trouble or not.

[RangerRick]

But, DSArms lists two 50-rd belts with a drum for $24.95

http://www.dsarms.com/RPD-Drum-And-B...uctinfo/RPDDB/

I haven't found anyplace where one can buy a single RPD belt, let alone a 10-link segment like I'd need here in Kalifornia.

All I saw was a 100 round belt and drum, but I ordered it. If you can't have that belt in CA I can cut off 10 rounds worth and send it to you.
If the belt works out OK, maybe we can take up a collection to get a semi-auto RPD ($2,100) and get them to make one of their barrels in 6.5 Grendel.

When I get the belt, I'll load it up with Grendel brass and see how it looks.

Rick

[stanc]

The sides of the link don't look terribly sloped so they may work with the Grendel.

Yeah, it might. Won't know until somebody actually tries it.

The part of the link that supports the neck will be very loose, though. Don't know if it will cause trouble or not.

It doesn't appear to contact the neck at all, so there shouldn't be any trouble in that aspect.



But, no matter. It's obvious from the complete lack of response to this thread that nobody is interested in advancing the idea of 6.5 Grendel for Eastern Europe, not even the person who originally proposed it, or the one who called it a "breath of fresh air" that we should help pursue.

[stanc]

All I saw was a 100 round belt and drum, but I ordered it.

The ad says 100-rd belt, but if you look carefully at the photo, there's a 50-rd belt in the drum and another 50-rd belt outside. I don't know if 100-rd belts were even made.

You can see in the video above there are two, 50-rd sections, with one falling off as he's shooting while walking, then the second section falls off when he's firing prone.

If you can't have that belt in CA I can cut off 10 rounds worth and send it to you.
If the belt works out OK, maybe we can take up a collection to get a semi-auto RPD ($2,100) and get them to make one of their barrels in 6.5 Grendel.

When I get the belt, I'll load it up with Grendel brass and see how it looks.

Oh, crap. Didn't know you were gonna do that. I should've made my previous post earlier today, before you spent the money. Rats!

[bwaites]

Some of us ARE interested, but just don't have a lot to contribute or time to post after we do everything else we are supposed to do! But...we are more than willing to contribute financially to advancement of the ideas!!

[JASmith]

OK, can you expand on the caption for post #6?

It looks like at least part of the belt is metal -- is there cloth there too?

There isn't much in the way of explanation ---

[stanc]

There's no cloth. Entire belt is metal. I'm not sure what else you wish to know?