AR Build for Dummies

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  • badmoon692008
    Bloodstained
    • Mar 2015
    • 79

    AR Build for Dummies

    Alright, so I've looked around a decent amount, and I have a couple guys at work who can probably help me, but I figure you guys have a wealth of knowledge and wouldn't mind helping me spend my money...

    I'm planning a Grendel build, this is my first AR build and first AR owned... I've decided I want a SAMMI spec chamber and plan on buying the Precision Firearms new budget barrel with bolt when they release it this week, along with a matched upper and lower from them, and a LPK...
    Things I know I need
    BCG (as far as I know the barrel/bolt combo does not include this)
    ...
    Questions...
    1. Is it worth the extra $150-$230 to get a better trigger? My two favorite guns have my two favorite triggers, so I'm leaning towards yes, but I wouldn't mind some opinions.
    2. What else do I need? I'm aware of the furniture (grip, stock, etc) but I'm lost on what parts I need to complete a stripped upper, along with what all the differences in gas blocks/etc. are...
    I'm pretty comfortable with tools and building stuff and have had every gun I own down to the bare frame, so I'm not terribly worried about actual assembly, but my knowledge on AR's is limited at best, and I'm in over my head when it comes to which parts I need to complete the build... Thanks in advance for any help!
  • rabiddawg
    Chieftain
    • Feb 2013
    • 1664

    #2
    As far as #1, i replaced a stock colt trigger with a geissle and it was the best money i ever spent.

    As for building your own. I too consider myself capable , but not as capable as Alexander Arms and Precision Firearms. My standards out run my ability to build a gun. Sounds like you dont mind buying quality parts so you may think about just buying a built gun from PF or AA. Just a thought.

    If i ever do build one i will start with cheap parts that i cant hurt.

    I think most guys buy kits that come with all the parts for the lower.

    Dont forget your buffer, spring and gas block and tube.

    Get you an ar build box. www.ar15buildbox.com.
    Last edited by rabiddawg; 03-19-2015, 06:25 PM.
    Knowing everthing isnt as important as knowing where to find it.

    Mark Twain

    http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...2-Yd-Whitetail

    Comment

    • motoxxx_ryder
      Warrior
      • Mar 2015
      • 180

      #3
      mil spec triggers typically suck, the cheapest trigger i work with is a ALG defense ACT trigger with JP yellow springs and a joe bob grip screw. this gets rid of creep, reduces trigger pull, and removes the grittiness.

      if you want a REALLY nice trigger, the next step up are the giesselle, timney, type triggers that are AMAZING personally i dont see the need on a hunting/fun gun. precision, yes they help alot.

      Comment

      • badmoon692008
        Bloodstained
        • Mar 2015
        • 79

        #4
        Originally posted by rabiddawg View Post
        As far as #1, i replaced a stock colt trigger with a geissle and it was the best money i ever spent.

        As for building your own. I too consider myself capable , but not as capable as Alexander Arms and Precision Firearms. My standards out run my ability to build a gun. Sounds like you dont mind buying quality parts so you may think about just buying a built gun from PF or AA. Just a thought.

        If i ever do build one i will start with cheap parts that i cant hurt.

        I think most guys buy kits that come with all the parts for the lower.

        Dont forget your buffer, spring and gas block and tube.

        Get you an ar build box. www.ar15buildbox.com.
        I plan on buying it piece by piece over a couple months, so dropping it all at once would be difficult... and take all the fun out of it... half the reason I want to build one is for the challenge, and the fun of being able to shop for every piece myself and get exactly what I want... I just need to figure out what I need before I can figure out what I want... lol

        Comment

        • Wonk
          Bloodstained
          • Feb 2015
          • 61

          #5
          Brownells has a complete printout listing every part needed for your build. You just need to fill in the blanks as to what part number you want for each item. They also list tools you may need for assembly. It's helping me a lot with my build. They also have lots of videos showing procedures for installing all these parts.

          And no, I don't work for or am in any way affiliated with them. : )

          Comment

          • southern180
            Bloodstained
            • Feb 2015
            • 57

            #6
            I know alot of people like to mate the barrel and upper but what Im told AA mates the barrel and upper perfectly aligned, flat top of upper and bore match horz. I to very new to this AR thing but can attest that mine was. Fired it first time last week and scope was set 0 up/down and 0 left to right first 2 shots where 1/2 left and centered up/down, took two more after adjustment and dead on . still needs more work at 100 plus yards but did not have much time that day. love my first AR, Lower is a PSA but I think if you ask Mark nice he will still help you with the group buy price on a bare lower???

            Comment

            • Klem
              Chieftain
              • Aug 2013
              • 3506

              #7
              Everyone's trying to achieve the same thing here; accuracy and reliability, but the more specific your question is the more varied will be the answers.

              My two cents worth.
              There are three things worth concentrating on, in order of importance:
              1. Barrel
              2. Scope
              2. Trigger

              If you are looking to spend money in some areas but want to save money in others then if I were you I would buy the best barrel, scope and trigger and look for savings for everything in else.

              The rest holds these three together. For more pernickety shooters then sure, consider the pros and cons of all the other parts (I do) but my take is that the majority of the guns accuracy lies in these three, and especially the barrel. Unlike the rest of the gun a barrels accuracy is perishable. Your barrel will be accurate to your definition for only a finite number of rounds so be prepared to swap-out every now and then like tyres on a car. As for a scope, you won't wear it out by looking through it so you may as well 'buy once cry once'.

              One last caveat...Scopes can be overpriced compared to others that work perfectly but finding one that works is difficult. We don't have all the truthful information at our fingertips. The criteria that is often missing from all the online reviews and opinions is repeatability. This is something that does not reveal itself until you bolt it on a rifle and shoot it. You can get the clearest, best tracking scope, best reticle, most compact, lightest, etc. but if the reticle erector frame jumps off zero in the recoil it's not worth a cracker. Worse still, you can end up thinking it is something else like ammunition, harmonics, the wind, the shooter and this could go on for months, even years. You might never know it was the scope's repeatability all along. My point is that while I think the barrel is most important the scope choice is more fraught.

              Comment

              • montana
                Chieftain
                • Jun 2011
                • 3209

                #8
                I would first be realistic with what your actual use with your rifle will be. Hunting, long range shooting, self defense, multi gun or combination of all? Establish your priorities first, then go with the best equipment you are able to purchase. Having a very accurate but heavy rifle wouldn't be the best choice if it is going to be carried long distances when hunting at 300 yards distance or less. Establish your priorities first then we can advise on the best equipment.

                Comment

                • just_john
                  Chieftain
                  • Sep 2012
                  • 1565

                  #9
                  And remember, whatever you build with, in a few months you'll have those "wish I'd known then what I know now" moments and be glad that everything on an AR is easily changeable. In the realm of tools, an absolute "gotta have" is the upper receiver lapping tool. Have yet to see a forged upper that was square at the barrel mount ( although I still prefer forged to billet ). Engineering / machining principals imply that billet should be square by default, but should be verified anyway.
                  Please approach this whole process with the greatest of caution. It is highly addictive and somewhat contagious! It slowly envelopes your mind and consumes so much of any available time. And there are no natural immunities ( other than available funding resources ). But if you're determined to catch the bug anyway - enjoy!

                  Comment

                  • 65Whelen
                    Warrior
                    • Sep 2014
                    • 671

                    #10
                    Buying the barrel/bolt, upper&lower receivers and LPK from PF is a good decision you won't be disappointed. Your right the bolt carrier is not included and I would also buy that from PF.

                    I agree with Klem, top considerations are barrel, trigger, optics. The barrel you have covered. The extra money you spend on a trigger is money well spent. I've got Timney and Geiselle triggers, both are very good but if I had to choose one I go with the Geiselle SSA-E. Optics, lots of choices, Vortex is a great scope for the money but it all come down to your requirements. Is this a build for hunting, bench shooting or maybe just a fun blaster?

                    You cover a lot of ground in this post, if you break it down into specific components and post on an individual component you'll get some great advise. To finish your build with furniture and the rest, there are a lot of quality components available. It comes down to personal preference and requirements.

                    Comment

                    • badmoon692008
                      Bloodstained
                      • Mar 2015
                      • 79

                      #11
                      Originally posted by 65Whelen View Post
                      Buying the barrel/bolt, upper&lower receivers and LPK from PF is a good decision you won't be disappointed. Your right the bolt carrier is not included and I would also buy that from PF.

                      I agree with Klem, top considerations are barrel, trigger, optics. The barrel you have covered. The extra money you spend on a trigger is money well spent. I've got Timney and Geiselle triggers, both are very good but if I had to choose one I go with the Geiselle SSA-E. Optics, lots of choices, Vortex is a great scope for the money but it all come down to your requirements. Is this a build for hunting, bench shooting or maybe just a fun blaster?

                      You cover a lot of ground in this post, if you break it down into specific components and post on an individual component you'll get some great advise. To finish your build with furniture and the rest, there are a lot of quality components available. It comes down to personal preference and requirements.
                      The main goal is for hunting... I'd love to have a bench rest gun that I can shoot out to 500+ yards, but the reality is I don't know of any ranges around that I could stretch out that far, and I think it would be more realistic and slightly more affordable to make a 300 yard and under hunting gun... maybe after this go around I'll save up some money and build a super long range gun, but for now I think hunting gun is the main objective

                      Comment

                      • LRRPF52
                        Super Moderator
                        • Sep 2014
                        • 8569

                        #12
                        Alright. For a hunting build, it will still be capable out to the effective range of the 6.5mm projectiles at moderate velocities (900yds plus), but your optic & mount will be a huge factor in being able to target shoot at distance.

                        Here's a formula for your particular needs that works really well:

                        Upper Receiver Group

                        18" barrel MLGS, lighter-medium weight
                        Forged, squared upper receiver
                        Carbon Fiber rifle-length handguard
                        Standard Bolt Carrier Group with 9130 bolt from AA or PF
                        Low profile steel gas block
                        MLGS gas tube
                        BCM Gunfighter or Raptor Charge Handle
                        Muzzle device of your choice

                        Lower Receiver Group
                        * Forged lower
                        * Tuned standard trigger or the higher end trigger of your choice. I like JP single stage, but also have Geissele.
                        * Quality Mil-spec lower parts kit, with forge codes, proof marks, and harder surface finish on the parts. DD, J&T, and several others make great LPK's.
                        * 7075T6 Mil-spec Carbine receiver extension. Colt and VLTOR make the best ones, but Brownell's models have been good for me over the years.
                        * H2 buffer
                        * Quality recoil spring
                        * Stock of your choice
                        * Receiver end plate
                        * Lock nut
                        * Grip of your choice

                        Optic/Mount System

                        Biggest issue with scopes is that a lot of scopes were never designed with semi automatic, heavy reciprocating mass, dual-axis shock forces, and some of the top names will break under semi-automatic fire. Fortunately, the AR15 has a relatively lightweight bolt carrier group, so it doesn't pound the snot out of optics like an AR10 or a SCAR-17/H, but certain scopes hold up better than others.

                        NightForce
                        Vortex
                        Leupold
                        Trijicon
                        Quality mounts can be had from NightForce, Aero, LaRue, GG&G, ADM, AAD, JP, ArmaLite, etc. but I personally really like the NightForce Unimount for its lightweight and height. It runs in the mid $200 range.

                        Recommended upgrades:
                        * Cerakote on all external metal parts, including barrel, receivers, steel fasteners, scope mount, lock ring, end plate, extension tube, especially for a hunting gun that will likely see inclimate weather. Cerakote makes maintenance a breeze.

                        * Trigger

                        * Best optic and mount you can get

                        * Black nitride or NiB bolt carrier

                        For those that want this type of set-up ready to go, the new AA Lite Hunter series are plug-and-play. I handled them at SHOT, and they are great little hunting packages, very light, well-balanced, with full rifle camo options in Kryptek.

                        NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                        CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                        6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                        www.AR15buildbox.com

                        Comment

                        • badmoon692008
                          Bloodstained
                          • Mar 2015
                          • 79

                          #13
                          Originally posted by LRRPF52 View Post
                          Alright. For a hunting build, it will still be capable out to the effective range of the 6.5mm projectiles at moderate velocities (900yds plus), but your optic & mount will be a huge factor in being able to target shoot at distance.

                          Here's a formula for your particular needs that works really well:

                          Upper Receiver Group

                          18" barrel MLGS, lighter-medium weight
                          Forged, squared upper receiver
                          Carbon Fiber rifle-length handguard
                          Standard Bolt Carrier Group with 9130 bolt from AA or PF
                          Low profile steel gas block
                          MLGS gas tube
                          BCM Gunfighter or Raptor Charge Handle
                          Muzzle device of your choice

                          Lower Receiver Group
                          * Forged lower
                          * Tuned standard trigger or the higher end trigger of your choice. I like JP single stage, but also have Geissele.
                          * Quality Mil-spec lower parts kit, with forge codes, proof marks, and harder surface finish on the parts. DD, J&T, and several others make great LPK's.
                          * 7075T6 Mil-spec Carbine receiver extension. Colt and VLTOR make the best ones, but Brownell's models have been good for me over the years.
                          * H2 buffer
                          * Quality recoil spring
                          * Stock of your choice
                          * Receiver end plate
                          * Lock nut
                          * Grip of your choice

                          Optic/Mount System

                          Biggest issue with scopes is that a lot of scopes were never designed with semi automatic, heavy reciprocating mass, dual-axis shock forces, and some of the top names will break under semi-automatic fire. Fortunately, the AR15 has a relatively lightweight bolt carrier group, so it doesn't pound the snot out of optics like an AR10 or a SCAR-17/H, but certain scopes hold up better than others.

                          NightForce
                          Vortex
                          Leupold
                          Trijicon
                          Quality mounts can be had from NightForce, Aero, LaRue, GG&G, ADM, AAD, JP, ArmaLite, etc. but I personally really like the NightForce Unimount for its lightweight and height. It runs in the mid $200 range.

                          Recommended upgrades:
                          * Cerakote on all external metal parts, including barrel, receivers, steel fasteners, scope mount, lock ring, end plate, extension tube, especially for a hunting gun that will likely see inclimate weather. Cerakote makes maintenance a breeze.

                          * Trigger

                          * Best optic and mount you can get

                          * Black nitride or NiB bolt carrier

                          For those that want this type of set-up ready to go, the new AA Lite Hunter series are plug-and-play. I handled them at SHOT, and they are great little hunting packages, very light, well-balanced, with full rifle camo options in Kryptek.

                          This is exactly the type of thing I was looking for... The build list on Brownells is nice too

                          Comment

                          • Drillboss
                            Warrior
                            • Jan 2015
                            • 894

                            #14
                            I made this mistake. Since your barrel will come with a bolt, you just need to get a bolt carrier rather than a BCG. However, you'll still need a firing pin, firing pin retainer and a bolt cam pin. It won't go bang without those.

                            Comment

                            • badmoon692008
                              Bloodstained
                              • Mar 2015
                              • 79

                              #15
                              Upper Receiver Group

                              18" barrel from PF
                              Forged, squared upper receiver

                              Carbon Fiber rifle-length handguard
                              Bolt Carrier Group with bolt from PF
                              Low profile steel gas block
                              gas tube

                              BCM Gunfighter Charge Handle
                              No muzzle device

                              Lower Receiver Group
                              * Forged lower
                              * Geissele trigger
                              * PF lower parts kit
                              * 7075T6 Mil-spec Carbine receiver extension. Colt and VLTOR make the best ones, but Brownell's models have been good for me over the years.
                              * H2 buffer
                              * Quality recoil spring
                              * Stock of your choice
                              * Receiver end plate
                              * Lock nut
                              * Grip of your choice


                              Recommended upgrades:
                              * Cerakote on all external metal parts, including barrel, receivers, steel fasteners, scope mount, lock ring, end plate, extension tube, especially for a hunting gun that will likely see inclimate weather. Cerakote makes maintenance a breeze.

                              I'm lucky and have a guy at work that will cerakote for cost, so that's no problem

                              * Trigger

                              * Best optic and mount you can get

                              * Black nitride bolt carrier


                              Alright, I made a big order from PF this morning and highlighted in red above everything that I have.
                              Questions:
                              1. Does anyone have experience with the ALG Defense EMR handguard? I like the idea behind it and it looks like what I want.
                              2. Any suggestions for affordable adjustable stocks that work well for hunting? I realize this is a little broad, and I've been searching around, but wouldn't mind some suggestions/photos.
                              3. I'm still a little fuzzy on buffer springs/tubes etc... what are the specs/what am I looking for/any suggestions?

                              Edit: Should I just make new threads for each of these things? I don't want to clutter things up, but maybe I'll get better answers, more exposure if I split it up?
                              Last edited by badmoon692008; 03-25-2015, 05:12 PM.

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