The Threat is Real, very real.

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  • ThunderStick
    Unwashed
    • Sep 2017
    • 24

    #16
    Spot on Klem!

    Look to places where is very difficult for the citizens to possess firearms, and you'll see they arn't immune from mass shootings either!

    Comment

    • Troutguide
      Warrior
      • Jan 2017
      • 380

      #17
      Klem your thinking is in line with mine. You can't make laws for the crazy or criminal you make laws to provide order for all and a way to prosecute or detain the crazy or criminal. Crazy or Criminal don't care about laws and every country has guns that can be accessed by the unscrupulous.

      TG
      "I rarely give a definite answer" - TG

      Comment

      • howl
        Warrior
        • Nov 2015
        • 236

        #18
        It isn't a gun issue. It is a criminal issue. The man had the intelligence and resources to have done it with other weapons. The body count could have easily been higher had he chosen other means.

        Comment

        • Kilco
          Chieftain
          • Jan 2016
          • 1201

          #19
          Look at the 80+ killed in Europe using a vehicle...

          That concert had 22,000+ attending. If this piece if s*** mad mowed through there in a vehichle, or god forbid a vehicle with explosives then only 50 would have been a maricle. Don't get me wrong 1 person killed is a tragedy, but regardless of firearms, what kind of firearms or how many firearms, as Klem indirectly put it, piece of filth fruitcakes are going to do what fruitcakes do. No logic, laws or rules are going to prevent that.

          Comment

          • Klem
            Chieftain
            • Aug 2013
            • 3507

            #20
            Originally posted by howl View Post
            It isn't a gun issue. It is a criminal issue. The man had the intelligence and resources to have done it with other weapons. The body count could have easily been higher had he chosen other means.
            True, but you cannot deny limiting civilian access to guns makes this sort of atrocity more difficult to commit. Also suggesting that if you do restrict guns then criminals will just find another way like a truck, and therefore it's pointless limiting guns in the first place is a non sequitur.

            Put yourselves in the shoes of the politicians who for the most part do not share our affinity for firearms. Charged with preventing these things politicians look at all the possible solutions and go with the easiest and least expensive options. Lock up all those known to be abled bodied yet have psychological problems, and related autism. Limit the influx of migrants with known inconsistencies with your way of life. Deny those with a criminal record, especially if it includes violence. Limit the tools available to commit efficient murder like guns... What is the cost of doing each of these and to what extent do we restrict each one. All those with mental illness or only those with violent tendencies? Do we restrict truck ownership or is the cost too high to society? All criminals forever or only those with violent crimes, or with records in the past ten years? For democracies that valorise individual freedoms tackling this problem necessarily comes at a cost. And like you say, there will always be some nutter who slips through the cracks and that is the harsh reality of firearm access. You want access to full auto weapons, well someone eventually will misuse their gun on full-auto. Semi-auto, someone will eventually misuse their gun on semi-auto. Restrict both and someone eventually will smuggle one in (although you have to admit restricting these at least mitigates the likelihood and lessens the damage if it occurs, if not eliminating it entirely).

            Sure, that guy could have used another means. They found a bag of ammonium nitrate at his house and also Tannerite. Unlikely that Tannerite can set off ANFO but with some effort he could access a detonator and booster from somewhere. Or just used a lot of Tannerite to propel shrapnel. He could have been in the Philippines with his Mrs when the thing went off and lived to fight another day (e.g. Margaret Thatcher, Brighton bombing in 1884. The IRA used a long timer). Heck, he could have rigged it to a mobile phone and rung it from overseas while watching the concert on Facebook. Instead he tied himself to the scene by using firearms and felt the need to commit suicide - A fruit cake that slipped through the very wide cracks.

            I am a responsible firearm aficionado and I don't want these murders to happen just like everyone else. I also prefer the Gov't not restrict my lifestyle so I will argue that I am prepared to put up with the risk for access to firearms. I hope everyone else in this democracy is ready to bear the risk also, for everyone's freedom, regardless if they want to exercise it or not. It's just the painful cost of freedom in a democracy.

            Comment

            • NugginFutz
              Chieftain
              • Aug 2013
              • 2622

              #21
              Two words... Timothy McVeigh.

              Without firing a single shot, he killed over 160 and wounded another 600.

              If mayhem is on your mind, having no access to a gun won't stop you.
              If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?

              Comment

              • Drift
                Warrior
                • Nov 2014
                • 509

                #22
                In what ? 7 years, Artificial Intelligence should reach the point that it will allow the police to collect/analyse every single non trivial action of every singe American 24/7. That same deep intelligence should then be able to make much better predictions then any current police or psychiatrist about every single Americans non trivial next action over the short and long term . And that Artificial Intelligence will double in it's efficiency every single year. That will curtail and then, soon enough, end these atrocities..AI may have a down side also...

                Comment

                • bj139
                  Chieftain
                  • Mar 2017
                  • 1968

                  #23
                  Drift, you're dreaming. All the police presence has failed to find any of this activity so far, unless it is activity they initiated. Those that were stoppped were due to common citizens reporting it.

                  Comment

                  • LRRPF52
                    Super Moderator
                    • Sep 2014
                    • 8569

                    #24
                    Looks like he had a terminal illness to me, and wanted to go out like this.

                    The whole incident seems to beg for more security infrastructure, almost too obviously.

                    A reasonable one in hindsight is counter-snipers for events like this, which is already standard for other venues (baseball stadiums).

                    There will be lessons-learned that will be analyzed by cities around the world moving forward.
                    NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                    CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                    6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                    www.AR15buildbox.com

                    Comment

                    • bj139
                      Chieftain
                      • Mar 2017
                      • 1968

                      #25
                      I just ran across this quote on another site and thought it fit well here.
                      RothbardOnGuns.jpg

                      Comment

                      • SHORT-N-SASSY
                        Warrior
                        • Apr 2013
                        • 629

                        #26

                        (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017...k-radicalized/)

                        Comment

                        • stanc
                          Banned
                          • Apr 2011
                          • 3430

                          #27
                          FALSE.

                          Infowars sensationalized the Sheriff's comment, and took it out of context.
                          All he was saying is that the investigation was ongoing, and they didn't know where it might take them.
                          He did not say (or even hint) that radicalization was suspected. Radicalization was just an example of what COULD POSSIBLY be turned up.

                          See 28:54-29:42


                          Comment

                          • montana
                            Chieftain
                            • Jun 2011
                            • 3209

                            #28
                            If a false flag or insane individual, the case for more gun control creating a safer society is complete bunk. Every tyrant, money grubbing, power hungry "individual or individuals" has used this excuse to disarm and control the common man. History proves the opposite : https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/MURDER.HTM
                            R.J. Rummel, Democide, mass murder, genocide, terrorism, bombing, executions, Holocaust, massacre, killed, assassinations, guerrilla war, riots, death, concentrations camps, labor camps, man-made famine, forced labor, hanging, shooting, burial alive, gassing, bombing, germ warfare, atomic bombs, burning alive, knifing, disease, starving, suicide, working to death, Mao Tse-tung, Hitler, Chiang Kai-shek, Lenin, Marx, Tojo Hideki, Pol Pot, Stalin, Yahya Khan, Josip Tito, sacrifice, slavery, infanticide, Spanish Inquisition, witch hunts, Crusades, American, United States, China, USSR, Soviet Union, Chinese Nationalists, Chinese Warlords, Chinese Dynasty, Chinese Communists, PRC, Nanking, Nazi Germany, Japan, Cambodia, Turkey, Poland, Pakistan, Yugoslavia, North Korea, Mexico, Russia, Indians, Mongols, Aztecs, Africa, Europe, South America, Armenians, Greeks, Moslems, Jews, Serbs, Croatians, Christians, Bengalis, Hindus, ethnic groups, races, racism, communism, fascism, libertarianism, freedom, democracy, liberal democracy, Christians, Moslems, Nazis, authoritarian, totalitarian, Marxism, Marx-Leninism, statism, state, human rights, civil liberties, humanism, political system, imperialism, colonialism


                            Enough said!
                            Last edited by montana; 10-04-2017, 07:49 AM.

                            Comment

                            • SHORT-N-SASSY
                              Warrior
                              • Apr 2013
                              • 629

                              #29

                              (http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/...7-las-50246108)

                              Comment

                              • Sticks
                                Chieftain
                                • Dec 2016
                                • 1922

                                #30
                                Incidents like this get sensationalized and soon the political will be dancing on the graves.

                                Not to minimize the victims, but we have more traffic deaths in Colorado in one month than this incident. More people are killed by drunk drivers across the lower 48 every day than this incident.

                                For gods sakes, the Flu kills more people annually than guns in the US every year. I shudder to think how many Vets either take their lives or die from drug/alcohol overdose or exposure every year from being homeless.

                                Yes this was a horrible incident, but for once, can we focus our energies and money where it will make a difference, rather than just make people feel good?

                                Already illegal to kill someone - did not stop him.
                                Already illegal to fire a projectile in city limits in a place not otherwise licensed for it - did not stop him.
                                The man broke a number of other laws, and those did not stop him, how the F is another law going to help?
                                Sticks

                                Catchy sig line here.

                                Comment

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