Common Problems Long Range Marksmanship Trainers See that You Can Avoid

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  • JJA Guns
    Bloodstained
    • Nov 2017
    • 34

    #16
    I would say the biggest barrier I've seen on the range is, failure to bring a teachable attitude. Women are generally better students than men. Leave your ego at home and show up wanting to learn. I used to bring my tools to shoots because there would always be a hand full of students that needed help getting their gear squared away which was not a big deal. But by and far, positive mental attitude was the biggest barrier to overcome.
    Last edited by JJA Guns; 11-29-2017, 03:57 AM.

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    • lrgrendel
      Warrior
      • Jul 2013
      • 662

      #17
      Originally posted by JJA Guns View Post
      I would say the biggest barrier I've seen on the range is, failure to bring a teachable attitude. Women are generally better students than men. Leave your ego at home and show up wanting to learn. I used to bring my tools to shoots because there would always be a hand full of students that needed help getting their gear squared away which was not a big deal. But by and far, positive mental attitude was the biggest barrier to overcome.

      Absolutely agree with you. My 19 year old daughter listens and takes instruction very well. First time shooting at 300 yds was shooting MOA no problem. My son didn’t listen as well and it showed!!

      I’d also like to add a couple of things from my experience. STRESS and “ RANGE NOISE “ influences.

      STRESS Any thing from work, financial, lack of sleep etc etc. If you are all stressed out when you go to the range or a competition, it will effect you.

      I don’t really mean noise but some examples would be lying prone beside a guy with a 338 LAPUA with a large muzzle brake and especially if he doesn’t even know he’s pissing everyone off!!!

      Or a guy with an AR 15 or AR10, you are to his right trying to shoot long distance and he is firing brass straight into your face and scope....patience is a virtue!!

      All I’m saying really is, don’t get chessed off because of these situations. If you have to move on the firing line, move or put a big ass bag between you and the semi autos!!

      These comments are really only maybe for any new folks getting into the long distance or PRS game for the first time. Might be funny for some but we have all experienced it!!

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      • Randy99CL
        Warrior
        • Oct 2017
        • 562

        #18
        Originally posted by LRRPF52 View Post
        Equipment:
        Biggest issues I see with equipment are-

        1. Unsatisfactory scopes brought to courses (Made in China/Russia optics that slip gears, backlash, won't track, won't repeat, reticles break and cant over, etc.)

        Solution: Buy a reputable scope and don't waste a single dime on optics that are garbage. You have to pay to play at long range, and especially on self-loading firearms with reciprocating masses that bash into themselves when chambering the next round.
        LRR, you probably get to see more scopes in hard use than 99% of we shooters, and get to see some that fail.

        Scopes are like engagement rings, everyone says to "spend 3 months' salary" or "save as much as you possibly can, then add 20%".
        The problem is that some of us are retired on fixed incomes and would have to save for a long time to spend even $500 on a scope. And I need two, one for close-up pig hunting and another for longer ranges.

        So...in your experience what are the brands of the most rugged and reliable scopes on the lower end? For example I have a Nikon that I like and Vortex has good prices and a great reputation. Have you seen any Muellers? Weaver, Redfield? I like Leupold but you have to get above their lower end to get the features of other brands.
        If you had $250-$350 to spend, what would you buy?
        "In any war, political or battlefield; truth is the first casualty."

        Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

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        • JJA Guns
          Bloodstained
          • Nov 2017
          • 34

          #19
          Bang for the buck, I've had really good luck with with Redfield Revolution Scopes. My kids run them on all their scoped rifles. For a 200ish dollar scope they track we'll and the glass is clearer than expected in that price range. Also have had good luck with the Nikon p223 scopes, both can be had for we'll under 300. I wouldn't hesitate to run one on a budget build. The only reason I don't is I have an older Tasco MagIV 50 that I run on stuff until I pick up the scope I want. It's a Japanese made one and it works without a hitch. Couldn't say the same for the newer Chinese ones.

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          • LR1955
            Super Moderator
            • Mar 2011
            • 3355

            #20
            Originally posted by Randy99CL View Post
            LRR, you probably get to see more scopes in hard use than 99% of we shooters, and get to see some that fail.

            Scopes are like engagement rings, everyone says to "spend 3 months' salary" or "save as much as you possibly can, then add 20%".
            The problem is that some of us are retired on fixed incomes and would have to save for a long time to spend even $500 on a scope. And I need two, one for close-up pig hunting and another for longer ranges.

            So...in your experience what are the brands of the most rugged and reliable scopes on the lower end? For example I have a Nikon that I like and Vortex has good prices and a great reputation. Have you seen any Muellers? Weaver, Redfield? I like Leupold but you have to get above their lower end to get the features of other brands.
            If you had $250-$350 to spend, what would you buy?
            Randy:

            You are right in the price range of "Made in China/Russian optics that slip gears, backlash, won't track, won't repeat, reticles break and cant over, etc." as you quoted LRRP 52.

            Not sure if there is a solution other than E Bay for something used.

            LR55

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            • Sticks
              Chieftain
              • Dec 2016
              • 1922

              #21
              Unfortunately, the old adage applies, if you want to play, you gotta pay.

              Second hand, refurbs, and such are about the only way to get a quality optic at knock off prices.
              Sticks

              Catchy sig line here.

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              • bj139
                Chieftain
                • Mar 2017
                • 1968

                #22
                Last edited by bj139; 12-01-2017, 03:39 AM.

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                • LRRPF52
                  Super Moderator
                  • Sep 2014
                  • 8569

                  #23
                  That video is a bit dated, but he has a very good approach.

                  One consideration for rifle optics that often gets overlooked is whether you are shooting a bolt gun or a gas gun.

                  Gas guns are much harder on optics because they slam them with the initial recoil, then send another series of impact forces on them when the bolt hits the breech and then the carrier slams into the extension.

                  This is the worst on AR10s and SCARs, then AR15s with an excessively violent cyclic rate.
                  NRA Basic, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO

                  CCW, CQM, DM, Long Range Rifle Instructor

                  6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks & chamber brushes can be found here:

                  www.AR15buildbox.com

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                  • bj139
                    Chieftain
                    • Mar 2017
                    • 1968

                    #24
                    SWFA SS was supposedly tested by the military on 50 BMG.
                    I don't know if this was full auto or not.

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                    • Randy99CL
                      Warrior
                      • Oct 2017
                      • 562

                      #25
                      So you guys are saying that there is not a decent scope to be had for $250-$350??? Other than used?
                      Wow I'm surprised.

                      I'm careful with my scope/guns, haven't drug them through the woods or banged them around. I've owned 8 so far and never had a single problem with any of them.
                      No bottom tier scopes but nothing over a couple hundred bucks either.
                      But I've not shot long ranges and cranked the adjustments, always used hold-off.

                      I bought two Redfield Widefields (one 1.75-5x and a 2-7x) in 1979 that are among the best I've ever owned. They cost about $150 each ($400 in 2017 $$$) and I still have the 1.75-5x and it's still perfect. For a few years I had it mounted on a .223 Ruger Ranch rifle and it never failed. I will use it on my Grendel for hog hunting until I can afford something better.
                      I have a 1" steel-tube Weaver 4x that I also bought in '79. My son uses it on one of his rifles and it is still perfect.

                      I am no where near as demanding of my scopes as you guys are. I think my next new ones will be Vortex and I'll rely on the excellent warranty.
                      "In any war, political or battlefield; truth is the first casualty."

                      Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

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                      • bj139
                        Chieftain
                        • Mar 2017
                        • 1968

                        #26
                        Nope. No decent scope for around $300.

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                        • PVBoom
                          Warrior
                          • Oct 2017
                          • 406

                          #27
                          Uh Randy? The topic is long range scopes. In my book that is 600 to 1000 yards. Let's say 0-300 short, 300-600 medium, 600-1000 long, 1000+ extreme/extended long. That isn't meant to be set in stone, just an approximation of what I think the common definitions are (+/- 100 yards).

                          So, no. Not for $300 for long range for proper practice and development of skills to a point of competence.

                          Not for good+ glass on a robust scope with precise turrets that will repeatedly return to zero, ideally with zero stops. That being a FFP 5x20 scope or better with Mil/Mil or MOA/MOA turrets/reticle where the reticle is suitable for holdover. I went with a SWFA SS 5x20 HD which was about $1200 @ 25% off. Otherwise I would recommend a refurb Vortex (someone trying to buy one here found a site with refurbs).
                          Last edited by PVBoom; 12-01-2017, 10:17 AM.

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                          • Sticks
                            Chieftain
                            • Dec 2016
                            • 1922

                            #28
                            Originally posted by PVBoom View Post
                            .... Otherwise I would recommend a refurb Vortex (someone trying to buy one here found a site with refurbs).
                            Sticks

                            Catchy sig line here.

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                            • Double Naught Spy
                              Chieftain
                              • Sep 2013
                              • 2560

                              #29
                              I read this thread yesterday while waiting for some files to process. Good read. Thank you!
                              Kill a hog. Save the planet.
                              My videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

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                              • LR1955
                                Super Moderator
                                • Mar 2011
                                • 3355

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
                                I read this thread yesterday while waiting for some files to process. Good read. Thank you!
                                DNS:

                                Was just about to recommend that Randy ask you since he says he will be using it for close in hunting.

                                Your opinion?

                                LR55

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