.224 Valkyrie? Future competitor to the 6.5 Grendel?

[NugginFutz]

What BFT said. It's going to be a few weeks, but I'm going to pick up either some 90 gr SMKs or Bergers and single load them in my 22 Nosler with an OAL of 2.46 per the new Hodgdon data with H4350. I should be able to get close to 2700 based on the velocities they publish for other loads I've tried.

One thing is Sierra says the 90s need a twist of 1:6.5 and Berger says 1:6 for the VLDs and my 22N is 1:8. If a 224V barrel is optimized for 90s, it's going to make it a bit of a one trick pony since lighter bullets won't be able to handle the twist. Nothing wrong with that as I did a 1:7 on the 6mm Grrrrr barrel I ordered to stabilize the heavies at the expense of the lites, but the 224V will be even more magnified. There's a reason why there's a market for 1:14 22-250s.

Like BFT said, Grrrrr can do everything

Absolutely. My Remington VLSS, with its 1:14, can send 40 grain pills at 4000+ fps with laser-like accuracy to 500+ yards. It's the single most effective p-dog eradicator in my arsenal. Having said that, I still shoot my 6.5's ten times more often. Why? Utility - that's why. They will do what the 24" 22-250 can only imagine doing, especially at distance.

[BluntForceTrauma]

Following this with interest. Latest article from The Firearm Blog.

[howl]

There's a lot to be said for being able to throw an 120gr ~.25 SD bullet. And steel case ammo!

[StoneHendge]

Now that we know the 90 gr SMK with a G7 of .256 will be the factory offering why do they keep flogging the "supersonic to 1300" meme? I come up with the 90 gr launched at 2700 going subsonic at around 1150 at sea level at 59 degrees F.

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Sure, it will stay supersonic to around 1350 in my parts, but a 22lr will stay supersonic to 1300 yards if you go high enough.

[BluntForceTrauma]

SH, I ran the numbers, as well, using JBM Ballistics calculator and Litz BC for the 90 SMK and 2700 fps from a 24" bbl and at 1100 yds I got a velocity of 1103 fps at sea level and 59 degrees (speed of sound is 1116 fps).

Like I said, we'll see how real-world numbers shake out.

But you'd think Federal's engineers would be able to use these ballistics tools as well as us amateurs. . . .

[grayfox]

Engineers yes... but marketeers, well that's another story!! It's an interesting cartridge but seems more of a niche-type.
Plus, in several states (VA is one) deer hunting is verboten with a 223 caliber.

[LRRPF52]

Now that we know the 90 gr SMK with a G7 of .256 will be the factory offering why do they keep flogging the "supersonic to 1300" meme? I come up with the 90 gr launched at 2700 going subsonic at around 1150 at sea level at 59 degrees F.

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Sure, it will stay supersonic to around 1350 in my parts, but a 22lr will stay supersonic to 1300 yards if you go high enough.

When I ran the numbers with G7 drag model, it never made it to 1300yds either.

Not sure what ballistic modeling they're using, but a tight twist will help keep it stabilized better through the transition.

[StoneHendge]

JP confirms they are doing 224 Valkyrie.

http://www.jprifles.com/bulletin/bulletin_november_2017.html?

Goes on to say that one of his teams used 224V for Team Safari a few weeks ago - both Team Members, so one as a carbine and one as a precision rifle. I'm actually heading down to Blue Steel Ranch Thursday for Intermediate "class" - maybe they'll have one there

On another note, the newsletter says they are moving all 22" barrels to an XL gas system.

*Just found results - Team 224V came in 35 out of 42

[LRRPF52]

That property is awesome down there.

Steel Safari is a great match, very fun.

Most guys that win that match are shooting 6mm or 6.5mm, but they are world-class shooters who don't waste any of their effort managing a stage.

Night and day difference between the top placers and bottom placers as to how to work a stage.

[PVBoom]

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyckbqpqcDI)

Hey it's Jon! he makes some sweet mounts & scope caps

[HowaGrendel]

as someone said....( Marketing ) it often overrides real world use or need.....especially in the gun world.....

[LRRPF52]

as someone said....( Marketing ) it often overrides real world use or need.....especially in the gun world.....

There are legitimate performance advantages to 2700fps with a .264-.274 G7 BC when shooting distance.

Wind drift is the biggest one.

.224 Valkyrie, given the stated mv's and known BCs of the 90gr SMK and Berger, will have less wind drift and drop than a Grendel no matter how you slice it.

You would have to get a 123gr bullet with a higher BC than the 123gr Scenar going 2700fps to match the Valkyrie for wind.

That speed is possible with hand loads using CFE223 from 24" barrels, but the only bullets I'm aware of with a better BC are solids like the 121gr Flatline, and I doubt you're going to get much past 2500fps with those, let alone the $62.4/100 cost.

If you made a 107gr or 110gr that is as long as a 130gr Berger VLD in 6.5mm, then you could match the muzzle velocity of the Valkyrie from a Grendel, and match or exceed the BC.

A 90gr with the same BC is going to have less drop either way, but I care more about wind.

[StoneHendge]

Well, it's for real. Will I be lining up to get one? it didn't make me feel like I had to have one - which is odd for any AR. Lol

Instructor was/is working on prototype JP barrel and brought it to Blue Steel Ranch. 20" barrel with R+2" / 1:7 twist pushing factory 90 gr SMKs in the low 2600s. Shot a 5 shot group with it at the sight in range and it's pretty damn accurate- especially since was getting broken in. Stock was way too short for me so I strung the group vertically around an inch but it was around 1/2" horizontal. Hard to judge recoil since it had a full auto rated Thunderbeast on it and a PRS. Felt like a 223. My guess is that it will be like my 22 Nosler - a sharp 223 - without the hefty can.

Winds were 15+ mph when instructor had it at the KD range. Was really hard for me to see hits on the heavier plates and with the lighter splash with the wind. I did take it to 1k on the last day in the morning calm, but their 1k plate is really heavy and I didn't see any movement or splash but instructor saw trace go in. One of the students rifles went down early the second day (Jewell trigger on a 6.5 CM Surgeon). He ended up using the 224V for the better part of 2 days without knowing what it was! Wasn't hard to see/hear most hits out to 700 on a relatively calm day, but my Grendel was smacking them a lot harder last year pushing factory Amax around 2450. I guess one benefit is that we did a timed stage with 2 shots on each target. Lighter hits mean you don't have to wait for the plate to stop swinging for as long.

90 gr VLDs probably won't shoot well due to jump. Barrel life of around 8k is what Federal is thinking with factory ammo. Pressure is relatively low - powder charges are closer to 223 than Grendel. Was also noted that Federal has been working on hardening their case heads.

[ahillock]

Will Federal going in on .224V, does that mean they have some military contract in the works as well?

[JASmith]

Pure opinion -- probably not, except for possibly unadvertised tests just to see what it can do.

The arguments against a move like that are very similar to those that have kept the 6.8, the Grendel, and a host of othe 'slightly better than' cartridges seeing more daylight in military procurement channels.