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22 vs 24 inch 6.5 Grendel Velocities..... - mdewitt71 - 09-11-2018
I would like to see some real world velocities on both 22 inch and 24 inch bolt action 6.5G set-ups.
Don't care about calculators; I wanna see and hear from actual owners.
Post em up.....
and thanks in advance !!!
22 vs 24 inch 6.5 Grendel Velocities..... - Sinclair - 09-11-2018
I do not have any real world numbers, no chrony, but the Berger No. 1 reloading manual says that the Grendel yields +/- 17 fps change for each inch variance from 24" std barrel. I adjusted the JBM Calculator for my 25.56" (650mm) barrel and the trajectory seems to be close if not right on. I know that this is not what you asked for, but it might help weed out the chaff from the grain. In MY real world nothing is absolute and you will be getting good info from the guys; however, different barrels will return different results and there is where the confusion will come from. Good luck with your quest.
22 vs 24 inch 6.5 Grendel Velocities..... - JASmith - 09-11-2018
Check page 33 of Volume 1 of the Grendel reloading handbook. The curves adhere rather closely to the averages of actual test data by Alexander Arms a long time ago.
Also, pay heed to Sinclair's caution about variability between rifles of even the same barrel length.
That variability, in small sample sizes (like what we can get here), could result in falsely concluding that chopping 2" off a 24" results in an increase of velocity or a huge drop in velocity.
Calculators, for the most part, are good at showing the average change in velocity, especially over the 5 - 10 % change in barrel length posited in the OP.
22 vs 24 inch 6.5 Grendel Velocities..... - Randy99CL - 09-11-2018
I've been shopping bolt-action rifles and have bought three new ones in the past couple of months.
Unfortunately, no one makes a 24" 6.5Grrr rifle. If someone wanted that length they'd have to get one barrelled by a custom maker.
Would you consider any other calibers?
I built my 6.5G AR almost a year ago and that was my introduction to the magical world of 6.5mm bullets.
About a month ago I bought a Rem 783 Walnut (in 6.5 Creedmoor) on sale for $350. 22" barrel, nice wood, great checkering, incredible trigger. Great rifle for the money, way better than any plastic stock. 6.5CM is almost as cheap to shoot as Grrr, Hornady makes AG for it too.
https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/207280
So then started looking for a 6.5CM with 24" barrel for longer ranges. Ended up with an incredible price (I'm on a tight budget) on a Ruger Hawkeye FTW in 260 Rem.
I love the Grendel and it will always be my AR-15 cartridge of choice but if you're wanting more it is so easy and cheap to step it up to Creedmoor (and others) and get a lot more performance.
Just my 2 cents.
Edit: Oops, does CZ make Grr rifles in 24"?
22 vs 24 inch 6.5 Grendel Velocities..... - mdewitt71 - 09-11-2018
I got manuals and books all day long Gents.... to include the Grendel book.
Hornady book says a certian load is 2350 out a 20" and I am shooting 2525 out of an 18"; just one example of not caring for educated guesses.
I want real world numbers.
Yea, of course there is always 6.5CM or even 6mm I may look at but, I am looking to not buy another set of dies or more bullets and powers for Calibers I already own.
22 vs 24 inch 6.5 Grendel Velocities..... - Sinclair - 09-11-2018
Randy99CL Wrote:I've been shopping bolt-action rifles and have bought three new ones in the past couple of months.
Unfortunately, no one makes a 24" 6.5Grrr rifle. If someone wanted that length they'd have to get one barrelled by a custom maker.
Would you consider any other calibers?
No, the Grendel does it all for my needs.
<http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-527-american/> is a link to the CZ site. Their 527 American in 6.5 Grendel does come with a 24" barrel. See my post on how the CZ owners like their CZs. I am just beginning to shoot my 527 Varmint. So far it is a keeper. The wood is very nice, the bolt smooth, the barrel is free floated, and best of all first indications is that it will be a tack driver (too bad I am old and shaky).
22 vs 24 inch 6.5 Grendel Velocities..... - Sinclair - 09-11-2018
mdewitt71 Wrote:I got manuals and books all day long Gents.... to include the Grendel book.
Hornady book says a certian load is 2350 out a 20" and I am shooting 2525 out of an 18"; just one example of not caring for educated guesses.
I want real world numbers.
Yea, of course there is always 6.5CM or even 6mm I may look at but, I am looking to not buy another set of dies or more bullets and powers for Calibers I already own.
Not to be condescending, but it has been pointed out that you cannot count on your rifle producing the same results as someone else's. Strange things happen inside the chamber/barrel of a firearm. Too many variables in the manufacturing process for things to be otherwise. Your own example of 2525 fps out of an 18" barrel vs 2350 out of an 20" barrel is proof of that.
As for as the Creedmore is concerned I was hot for one until I read that the estimated barrel life was 2 to 3 thousand rounds. The .260 Rem is a little better but still a barrel burner compared to Grendel's 8 to 10 thousand round life expectancy. When I want to just go shooting, I do not want to worry about 'is this the last time it will shoot accurately?'
22 vs 24 inch 6.5 Grendel Velocities..... - LR1955 - 09-11-2018
I do have real world numbers.
I had two Grendel barrels made for me by my barrel maker. He used the same reamer, same lot of steel, same groove diameter, etc. You will not get closer to the same barrel but one is a 20 inch and one a 26 inch.
I chronographed many loads from each but the one load I use the most is 30 grains of 2520, Lapua Brass, CCI-450 primer, and a 120 grain Match King.
20" velocity is 2438 fps.
26" velocity is 2551 fps.
Average velocity increase per inch of barrel length is 18.8 fps.
LR55
22 vs 24 inch 6.5 Grendel Velocities..... - mdewitt71 - 09-11-2018
^^^^^
Thank you for the REAL numbers !!!!
I appreciate it.
Who made your barrels if you dont mind me asking?
22 vs 24 inch 6.5 Grendel Velocities..... - JASmith - 09-11-2018
mdewitt71 Wrote:...Hornady book says a certian load is 2350 out a 20" and I am shooting 2525 out of an 18"; just one example of not caring for educated guesses...You are looking at about 200 fps above the book value. This puts your load more in line with what one could expect from an 18" Creedmoor.
Your information is more than two or three standard deviations above the expected velocity. This means that something is almost certainly wrong with the chronograph, the rifle, the load, or other.
Can you share the load you got the incredibly excellent velocity with. Others might be able to help trouble shoot what could be a serious safety issue resulting from pressures possibly being well above the SAAMI maximum.
22 vs 24 inch 6.5 Grendel Velocities..... - dammitman - 09-11-2018
LR1955 Wrote:I do have real world numbers.
I had two Grendel barrels made for me by my barrel maker. He used the same reamer, same lot of steel, same groove diameter, etc. You will not get closer to the same barrel but one is a 20 inch and one a 26 inch.
I chronographed many loads from each but the one load I use the most is 30 grains of 2520, Lapua Brass, CCI-450 primer, and a 120 grain Match King.
20" velocity is 2438 fps.
26" velocity is 2551 fps.
Average velocity increase per inch of barrel length is 18.8 fps.
LR55
I will go with that,,,,,
22 vs 24 inch 6.5 Grendel Velocities..... - LR1955 - 09-11-2018
mdewitt71 Wrote:^^^^^
Thank you for the REAL numbers !!!!
I appreciate it.
Who made your barrels if you dont mind me asking?
I don't mind but the guy who makes them doesn't advertise.
If you are interested in buying one, contact me B/C and I will see if he will make one for you.
LR55
22 vs 24 inch 6.5 Grendel Velocities..... - Randy99CL - 09-12-2018
Sinclair Wrote:As for as the Creedmore is concerned I was hot for one until I read that the estimated barrel life was 2 to 3 thousand rounds. The .260 Rem is a little better but still a barrel burner compared to Grendel's 8 to 10 thousand round life expectancy. When I want to just go shooting, I do not want to worry about 'is this the last time it will shoot accurately?'
Do you really worry about that??
Lots of people shooting 6.5CM and I've never heard it called a "barrel burner". I don't read the same articles you do. Do people complain about .243 Win burning barrels? Same powder capacity, smaller bore diameter.
I'm not worried about it, it will take a few years for me to fire that many rounds even if the estimate is accurate.
22 vs 24 inch 6.5 Grendel Velocities..... - LR1955 - 09-12-2018
Randy99CL Wrote:Do you really worry about that??
Lots of people shooting 6.5CM and I've never heard it called a "barrel burner". I don't read the same articles you do. Do people complain about .243 Win burning barrels? Same powder capacity, smaller bore diameter.
I'm not worried about it, it will take a few years for me to fire that many rounds even if the estimate is accurate.
Randy:
Good way of thinking. Guys get confused about barrel life. When a HP competitor talks about barrel life, he is saying that he may need a new barrel when his X count drops at 600, 800, 900, and 1000. We would get more of this 'barrel life' with the .308 if we went to a longer bullet at those ranges (except for Palma due to rules). The point is that the numbers that are given have two things in common. First, they range greatly and second, they normally concern long range and may be just fine for 300 and 500 for another five hundred or so rounds before they see a decay in scores at those ranges. Then guys may use the barrels in short range practice for another thousand rounds or so.
Yes, the 6.5 Creedmoor and .260 are not considered hard on barrels when compared to the various 6mm's.
No matter the caliber of bullet used, the more powder a guy uses, the higher the wear on the barrel. Thus .308's outlast 300 Magnums, 6.5 Creedmoor outlasts 6.5 / 284, 6 BR outlasts 6 X 47 etc.
LR55
22 vs 24 inch 6.5 Grendel Velocities..... - Sinclair - 09-12-2018
LR1955, I apologize for the misleading comment. Yes, the article that I referred to was on long range competition. In the beginning, the people that I knew that had a Creedmore were using them for long range target shooting. My earliest experiences with shooting a rifle was in hunting were the only round that counts is the first one, therefore my interests have always been on marksmanship. Back in my day a boy's first rifle might likely be Grandpa's old .22 with tens of thousands rounds fired through it. So, to me most hyper velocity rifles of today are barrel burners. I am sorry to have let my age and old ways of thinking make mislead comments. I will endeavor to curb my posts.
22 vs 24 inch 6.5 Grendel Velocities..... - LR1955 - 09-12-2018
Sinclair Wrote:LR1955, I apologize for the misleading comment. Yes, the article that I referred to was on long range competition. In the beginning, the people that I knew that had a Creedmore were using them for long range target shooting. My earliest experiences with shooting a rifle was in hunting were the only round that counts is the first one, therefore my interests have always been on marksmanship. Back in my day a boy's first rifle might likely be Grandpa's old .22 with tens of thousands rounds fired through it. So, to me most hyper velocity rifles of today are barrel burners. I am sorry to have let my age and old ways of thinking make mislead comments. I will endeavor to curb my posts.
Sinclair:
Not sure why you are apologizing and I don't see how anything you said was misleading. Some guys revolt at the thought of getting a new barrel at 8K rounds. Others, particularly those who shoot the 6mm's, think they are lucky to get 2000 rounds of performance.
This is getting way off track. Mike asked for real world data on velocity vs barrel length.
LR55
22 vs 24 inch 6.5 Grendel Velocities..... - Dead Center Miss - 09-13-2018
Barrel life really depends on the user as well and what you are happy with in accuracy. I had a Remingron 788 a few years ago and put a new 223 barrel on it, and it was a absolute tack driver, and I fired many, many, MANY rounds through it before the throat wore enough that I couldn't touch the rifling with a bullet and at that point it started to lose some accuracy and I sold it. The guy I sold it was absolutely thrilled with how well it shot, where as I no long was because I knew it used to shoot better.
If you are only gonna shoot factory ammo, I don't think you would notice much as the throat wore since the bullet was never close to the rifling anyway.
And as for me, if I was gonna do a bolt gun, I would look at something with a bit more powder capacity then the grendal. I'm not a band wagon guy, but I think the creedmoor is a very good choice for a bolt gun.
22 vs 24 inch 6.5 Grendel Velocities..... - Sticks - 09-13-2018
I have a 24" Lilja that is slow by comparison. Same velocities as my 18" Bartlien, and four, 20" Howa rifles. Everybody runs the 123 ELD (factory) at 2475 +/-15
22 vs 24 inch 6.5 Grendel Velocities..... - rickt300 - 09-13-2018
Randy99CL Wrote:Do you really worry about that??
Lots of people shooting 6.5CM and I've never heard it called a "barrel burner". I don't read the same articles you do. Do people complain about .243 Win burning barrels? Same powder capacity, smaller bore diameter.
I'm not worried about it, it will take a few years for me to fire that many rounds even if the estimate is accurate.
Why yes "people" complain about the 243 burning barrels! That said the Creed should have a better barrel life than the 260 Remington. Beyond that there are countless starving barrel makers waiting to build you another barrel.
22 vs 24 inch 6.5 Grendel Velocities..... - JASmith - 09-13-2018
I think at least one poster has indicated that the consequences of short barrel life are application dependent.
While we are still off topic, lets summarize barrel life concerns and then return to the original topic of velocities in different barrel length Grendels.
The hunter who shoots three rounds at the range to verify zero and maybe two at game each year can get twenty years of barrel life even if the barrel burns out at just one hundred (100) rounds. This is the context for cartridges like the .243 and hotter cartridges not being particularly rough on barrels.
In contrast, the precision rifle competitor often shoots as many as 100 rounds in a single session. For these shooters, a barrel that retains its best acuracy over just 2,000 to 3,000 rounds is often obliged to swap barrels before a year goes by. Some write off the cost of frequent barrel swaps as part pf the cost of being seriously competitive.
For others, haivng to replace barrels even every two or three years is a painful and expensive experience.
Fortunately Grendel barrel life is long enogh that very few Grendeliers need to swap shot out barrels even among the most ontense rates of shooting. (Of course, the abuser who shoots fast enough and swaps mags as fast as possible might overheat the barrel and shorten the life a bit...)