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Sandy Hook families can sue gun manufacturer Remington - NugginFutz - 03-15-2019
From the Hartford Courant, March 14th, 2019.
"State Supreme Court overturns lower court ruling,
says Sandy Hook families can sue gun manufacturer Remington"
https://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-news-sandy-hook-gun-ruling-20190314-pwcw3qncazb7zkitbbkocmplka-story.html
The Connecticut State Supreme court has apparently overturned a lower court ruling, thereby clearing the way forward for families of the Sandy Hook victims to sue Remington.
While I am not certain that that particular shooting involved a Remington made AR-15, the lawsuit will almost certainly allow the litigants access to Remington's internal marketing documents.
From the article in the Courant:
Quote:The court ruled that the Sandy Hook families should have the opportunity to prove that Remington violated the Connecticut Unfair Trade Practices Act (CUTPA) by marketing what it knew was a weapon designed for military use to civilians such as Nancy and Adam Lanza.
This has a very chilling effect, if you ask me. This is just one more step along the path to removing the individual responsibility, and projecting the blame onto the tool. Can you imagine, for a minute, every time someone uses a weapon of any kind in a murder, the first thing the prosecuting attorney is going to look for is the name of the weapon's manufacturer? Imagine their glee when the name turns out to be one of the biggest firearm makers in the world? "$$$ Cha-Ching! $$$"
Remington really has to appeal this to the SCOTUS.
Sandy Hook families can sue gun manufacturer Remington - 37L1 - 03-15-2019
Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA)
Sandy Hook families can sue gun manufacturer Remington - Double Naught Spy - 03-15-2019
Yeah, I don't see how this is right. I hope/expect the appeal to be successful.
Sandy Hook families can sue gun manufacturer Remington - tashley680 - 03-15-2019
It should and probably will go to the Supreme Court and hopefully will set a precedent to kill this insanity once and for all!
Sandy Hook families can sue gun manufacturer Remington - Keef - 03-15-2019
America, land of freedom and litigation!
Sandy Hook families can sue gun manufacturer Remington - sneaky one - 03-16-2019
A piece of metal is not the problem
Sandy Hook families can sue gun manufacturer Remington - LR1955 - 03-16-2019
Guys.
I can't wait for people to sue truck manufacturers for making trucks that are used to run down people in terrorist attacks.
Better yet, sue the rental company that rented the truck to the terrorist. Although Ford for example can not check the background of the person who buys their truck, a rental place can surely check the background of someone by using the same system as for firearms.
Some say that vehicles are not designed to be weapons. No problem. Booze on the other hand is designed to inebriate someone so they are next if this one passes.
LR55
Sandy Hook families can sue gun manufacturer Remington - mtptwo - 03-16-2019
tashley680 Wrote:It should and probably will go to the Supreme Court and hopefully will set a precedent to kill this insanity once and for all!
It was the Connecticut Supreme Court that allowed the suit to move forward. Supposedly, due to a law in Connection about advertising limits or some such.
Sandy Hook families can sue gun manufacturer Remington - grayfox - 03-17-2019
Even though a state law, it can still be brought to the Supreme Ct b/c of the federal supremacy clause, interstate commerce clause and free speech. Question is, whether Remington has the guts to pursue the appeal.
Remington corporate HQ is in North Carolina.
Sandy Hook families can sue gun manufacturer Remington - biodsl - 03-17-2019
This should be overturned by SCOTUS if appealed. Some good material here from Glenn Reynolds at Instapundit.
https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/324655/
Sandy Hook families can sue gun manufacturer Remington - TomSawyerNW - 03-17-2019
So, we can sue the manufacturer of a scalpel used by a doctor committing malpractice? Prbly not.
Still, this is nothing more than a 4-3 ruling by a gun-hating state intended to make guns illegal in this country.
Whether or not you like Trump's hair or his tweets, you have to appreciate his push to get basic law abiding judges in place.
Sandy Hook families can sue gun manufacturer Remington - lazyengineer - 03-17-2019
This is a show for purpose of harassment. Everyone involved is aware of the "Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act", which is Federal law. The goal is to in general harass the industry. The general attitude is that a dollar spent harassing the gun industry, is a dollar invested; and it's good pro-bono publicity as well.
And they can't lose. Because when they inevitably lose the final appeal after many hearings and years from now; they will have their headlines on how awful the gun industry is.
Sandy Hook families can sue gun manufacturer Remington - stanc - 03-18-2019
TomSawyerNW Wrote:Whether or not you like Trump's hair or his tweets, you have to appreciate his push to get basic law abiding judges in place.That's small consolation for having a President who violated the 2nd Amendment, and advocates violating the 5th Amendment.
Sandy Hook families can sue gun manufacturer Remington - LR1955 - 03-18-2019
stanc Wrote:That's small consolation for having a President who violated the 2nd Amendment, and advocates violating the 5th Amendment.
Stan:
Stated in a vacuum. The alternative would have been Hillary who would have ignored the entire Bill of Rights.
But we have gone over this a couple of times and at least once I banned you for not staying on the topic and going off in a rage about Trump.
Trump Derangement Syndrome was funny to me when it was coined. Now I realize that it is true!
In your situation, you hate Trump more than you want to be on the Grendel Forum.
Again, keep this on topic and the topic IS NOT your opinion on what parts of the Bill of Rights YOU think the President has violated. I can assure you that others disagree and this topic will degrade into another endless argument over nuances of the Constitution and American History.
Finally -- I am not inviting you to respond to this post with itemized instances where you think Trump has violated the Constitution or where I somehow misunderstood your post.
In fact, if you do so, I will throw you off the forum for a minimum of six months. I promise you this so simply stay on the topic and the topic is not Trump.
LR55
Sandy Hook families can sue gun manufacturer Remington - LR1955 - 03-18-2019
And, just to make sure that Stan understands my entire post, with emphasis on my last sentence. I will give him a cool down time, like I had to do to buy a revolver because my CCP had expired. So I will close this thread for two or three days. Then I will open it again.
Sandy Hook families can sue gun manufacturer Remington - LR1955 - 03-22-2019
As promised -- open once again.
Comments on Trump issue. If someone starts a thread about the effects of Trump and the Trump Administration on the 2A, then what Stan started writing is fair game. To a point. That point is when a discussion or even debate turns into someone's podium so they can rant about how bad or how much they hate Trump or think him a fool, moron, etc. Personally, if being a billionaire and then President of the USA is the result of being an idiot or moron, I was born way too smart.
So, the thread is open again and keep it focused on the topic, please.
LR55
Sandy Hook families can sue gun manufacturer Remington - NugginFutz - 03-22-2019
37L1 Wrote:Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA)
That is the argument Remington's lawyers have been using throughout the proceedings.
What the case in Connecticut comes down to is whether or not it can be proven that Remington "marketed and sold a weapon to an individual while knowing there was a reasonable risk that that individual was likely to, and did, cause harm to others with that weapon" ("Negligent Entrustment"). A very difficult uphill battle, to be sure, but I truly believe they've got a chance, given the changes in political climate where demonizing one's adversaries is a viable substitute for a reasonable argument and open debate. The plaintiff's lawyers are doing plenty of grand standing, too, playing on the emotions of the general public. They're using such language as "...we can start uncovering documents on how this military weapon ended up in civilian hands.”
I personally think that the attorneys are using the "Negligent Entrustment" angle as their short game. They know that the odds are against them, here. Their long game, I believe, is to use the legal system to create an environment for Remington with such a great risk of public embarrassment that Remington decides to dig deep and pay off a huge settlement.
Sandy Hook families can sue gun manufacturer Remington - stanc - 03-22-2019
NugginFutz Wrote:The Connecticut State Supreme court has apparently overturned a lower court ruling, thereby clearing the way forward for families of the Sandy Hook victims to sue Remington.Bushmaster XM15. Remington Outdoor Company owns Bushmaster.
While I am not certain that that particular shooting involved a Remington made AR-15...
![[Image: bushmaster.jpg]](https://riversong.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/bushmaster.jpg)
Sandy Hook families can sue gun manufacturer Remington - grayfox - 03-22-2019
NugginFutz Wrote:What the case in Connecticut comes down to is whether or not it can be proven that Remington "marketed and sold a weapon to an individual while knowing there was a reasonable risk that that individual was likely to, and did, cause harm to others with that weapon" ("Negligent Entrustment"). A very difficult uphill battle, to be sure, ...
maybe so, but an argument like that should be doomed to fail, since in this particular case, the "individual" who bought it was the mom. The son, who was the user of it, both murdered his mom and then went on his school rampage.
[Preface, not a lawyer]...
Here's a definition and discussion of negligent entrustment, from
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Negligent+Entrustment, and West's Encyclopedia of American Law, edition 2. Copyright 2008.
Negligent Entrustment
The act of leaving an object, such as an automobile or firearm, with another whom the lender knows or should know could use the object to harm others due to such factors as youth or inexperience.
Negligent entrustment claims arise when an unlicensed, incompetent, or reckless driver causes damages while driving a motor vehicle owned by someone else. A party injured by such a driver must generally prove five components of this tort: (1) that the owner entrusted the vehicle to the driver; (2) that the driver was unlicensed, incompetent, or reckless; (3) that the owner knew or should have known that the driver was unlicensed, incompetent, or reckless; (4) that the driver was negligent in the operation of the vehicle; and (5) that the driver's Negligence resulted in damages (Amaya v. Potter, 94 S.W.3d 856 [Tex. App. 2002]).
So in this case, the "owner" was his mom, Remington was not the owner and could not know what, if any, uses the purchaser might decide to do. For that matter nothing in such a purchase implies any use at all, aside from possession and storage in an owner's premises (ie, I think this is "quiet enjoyment" or something like that). As to #1, the mom certainly did not entrust the AR to the son... but she is deceased and cannot testify; however I'll wager that there's no evidence of it in any case. Leaving "unlocked" is not entrustment, esp if the son is not a minor. As to #2, if the State, in this case Connecticut, has not officially determined/documented whether the son was incompetent, etc, then this point will also be difficult to prove -- remember they need to prove that state of incompetence existed at the time of the crime. As to #3, the "driver", ie, user, was a relative of the owner and there is no way that a vendor such as Remington could know anything at all about such a relative, let alone any competence, sanity, knowledge training or anything else. The owner of the AR might know that, but plaintiffs would have to prove that fact... of course she was murdered by the son so that's going to be hard.
So I see 3 of the 5, the first 3 of those 5, as being difficult if not totally failed in attempting to prove... so again, the plaintiffs should have no case and it should be dismissed. We're talking now about the elements of tort law, and I'm not a lawyer, but it seems evident that there is no real case as a matter of this tort, for them to have.
On the other hand if this is a political ploy then of course rule of law is kicked to the curb and that's the only reason I see that this case is going forward.
If anything, and I mean Anything, the parents should be suing the mom's estate...
O, that entity doesn't have deep pockets, so that rules it out as well!!!
Sandy Hook families can sue gun manufacturer Remington - stanc - 03-22-2019
NugginFutz Wrote:What the case in Connecticut comes down to is whether or not it can be proven that Remington "marketed and sold a weapon to an individual while knowing there was a reasonable risk that that individual was likely to, and did, cause harm to others with that weapon" ("Negligent Entrustment"). A very difficult uphill battle, to be sure, but I truly believe they've got a chance, given the changes in political climate where demonizing one's adversaries is a viable substitute for a reasonable argument and open debate.Since Remington does not sell directly to individuals, I don't see how that definition of Negligent Entrustment applies.
However, if it can be interpreted as "marketed a weapon to the public while knowing there was a reasonable risk that that an individual is likely to cause harm to others with that weapon," that is easily proven by the history of mass shootings with semi-auto versions of military rifles.