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+--- Thread: looking for a 6.5gr bolt gun (/showthread.php?tid=21772)
looking for a 6.5gr bolt gun - Bottomdweller - 08-06-2020
A5BLASTER Wrote:Agreed. If I could take the barrel, trigger and mags from my CZ and install them on a howa action it would be perfect.
Interesting
looking for a 6.5gr bolt gun - JSH - 08-06-2020
I will add the 222 Howa, feeds so slick I didnt think it picked up a cartridge. I would pull the bolt back to check at times. As far as that goes all three of mine feed and feel that way.
looking for a 6.5gr bolt gun - Bottomdweller - 08-06-2020
I think the inherent problem is the cartridge itself. I would bet that other howas chambered in the longer cases feed better than the shorter grendel. The problem I had with all of the mags I worked with was the shoulder being so far back from the tip making the ballance of the cartridge too far forward. A longer case with a short throat facilitates feeding from the mag.
looking for a 6.5gr bolt gun - A5BLASTER - 08-06-2020
Bottomdweller Wrote:I think the inherent problem is the cartridge itself. I would bet that other howas chambered in the longer cases feed better than the shorter grendel. The problem I had with all of the mags I worked with was the shoulder being so far back from the tip making the ballance of the cartridge too far forward. A longer case with a short throat facilitates feeding from the mag.
If that was true no grendel bolt action would feed.
My cz 129 ablr handloads coal is 2.335 from a windowed cz mag. So if the bullet was to far forward of the case to feed I would be seeing it with that load.
I honestly believe that mag issues and feeding with grendel is 10% out of spec gun parts, 5 % mag issues and 85% the owner has no clue how to figure out what he did wrong.
looking for a 6.5gr bolt gun - Stinky Coyote - 08-06-2020
JSH...no one will disagree with you on everything from the trigger upward on a howa. The metal is a gem, the action is a gem, barrels shoot lights out, trigger is great for the price range, my beef with the trigger is mostly feel, it's pull and break are great...its feel sucks a bit. The CZ trigger has the best feel and it's a bomber little rifle, not a perfect push feed like the howa but a true controlled round feed mauser that should not be compared to a push feed like the howa for smoothness. But you can slick those cz actions up pretty damn nice.
Howa could really change the game in this segment if they do 2 things.
1. above all else, redo the magazine and bottom, metal magazines that are reliable, efficient/compact...like the competition! dumbasses
2. bring the stainless over like Australia has access too...don't bother bringing stainless until you sort out #1.
And at least for number 3...one can replace the trigger with better. Only would i consider that if 1 and 2 were sorted out, then it would be a truly worthwhile higher level rifle and it would pay more for it to boot. Howa only went 50% as far as they needed too, they didn't realize how important the bottom half of the rifle really is. Go ahead, take your money and run...or...step up to the plate, listen, and dig in, you're only building half a rifle and that's simply not good enough.
looking for a 6.5gr bolt gun - JSH - 08-07-2020
I wont disagree on the triggers. I know folks that love the CZ but dislike the trigger, no matter how they adjusted it.
The Mauser style extractor is not without issues either. It is over my head in the geometry of such. I have a couple of 1903s as issued along with a Krag, they just plain gobble ammo about anyway you feed it, as long as it is oriented projectile first.
Buddy has a 527 he sent back because it would not single feed, they fixed it. Still best to push the bolt shut with your thumb.
I will see shortly if I can cuss the Mini. Have barrel nutted 22Nosler to put on an action. It fed well from the 65G mag.
I ordered some bottom metal for another, and will have a stock ordered next month.
Time will tell on both.
looking for a 6.5gr bolt gun - Stinky Coyote - 08-07-2020
a controlled round feed isn't designed for single feeding, the bolt wraps around the cartridge rim as it picks it up from the magazine, detach or internal box, old mauser crf's guys didn't empty gun and just drop a loose round in and cycle, they jam them down into the internal box mag first for singular pick up...i have not even tried to single feed my cz just knowing it's a true crf action and that it's going to want to pick it up from the magazine to engage the rim properly
always use the magazine to feed a cz 527 imo, if you're a bench guy plopping them in from the 50 round reloads box one at a time, push feed all the way, not even sure why cz makes varmint models based on a crf action, seems like an odd fit, cz 527 americans for actual hunting though...great little rifle
as for the trigger, it was a bit fussy getting it set and the issue was the creep travel adjustment, it would back out as you shot introducing more creep, so a little loctite was needed on this last on for me, i was able to get it to 2 3/4 lbs with near perfect crispness, there may be just a touch creep there on the range if you're trying to feel for it, but in general handling or hunting, it's fantastic single stage, the set triggers are useless for me, i don't even play with the feature, i shoot tighter groups when i grip the gun with meaning and bear down on my shots, a trigger in the ounces is for free recoilers and bench stuff i suppose but i've not shot better trying to do that technique
looking for a 6.5gr bolt gun - Stinky Coyote - 08-07-2020
wow, lost a post here, deleted and not sure how or why, lets try again
cz 527 is a crf action, controlled round feed, the bolt starts to wrap itself around the cartridge rim as soon as it picks it up from magazine, internal box, or detach...because of this i've never even tried to single load a cz, always feed it from the magazine, this is a hunting reliability and initially military reliability thing
the fact cz makes varmint models on a crf action seems odd to me, american only models with hunting in mind for me, if i was a bench/varmint guy i'd be into push feeds where you can lob them into the hole and easily close things up with smooth push feed action
this is why a cz will never be as smooth/light pushing as push feed action like a howa, the cartridge is under tension and held by the magazine SO THAT the bolt can start to wrap it's extractor around the cartridge rim as it picks it up and guides it in under full 'control', it's now become one with the bolt you're gonna likely damage the bolt/extractor trying to run it like a push feed action and force the extractor over the cartridge rim rather than have it turn over the rim early in the magazine while it's being held under tension...anyway hope this helps some
as for the trigger, this last one took a little fussing to get set right, the creep screw kept backing out as it shot, so required a little loctite then sit overnight to cure, and it's been money every since, crisp 2 3/4 lbs single stage with great feel, it's my fav trigger of the 3, ruger is next best
looking for a 6.5gr bolt gun - A5BLASTER - 08-07-2020
Stinky Coyote Wrote:wow, lost a post here, deleted and not sure how or why, lets try again
cz 527 is a crf action, controlled round feed, the bolt starts to wrap itself around the cartridge rim as soon as it picks it up from magazine, internal box, or detach...because of this i've never even tried to single load a cz, always feed it from the magazine, this is a hunting reliability and initially military reliability thing
the fact cz makes varmint models on a crf action seems odd to me, american only models with hunting in mind for me, if i was a bench/varmint guy i'd be into push feeds where you can lob them into the hole and easily close things up with smooth push feed action
this is why a cz will never be as smooth/light pushing as push feed action like a howa, the cartridge is under tension and held by the magazine SO THAT the bolt can start to wrap it's extractor around the cartridge rim as it picks it up and guides it in under full 'control', it's now become one with the bolt you're gonna likely damage the bolt/extractor trying to run it like a push feed action and force the extractor over the cartridge rim rather than have it turn over the rim early in the magazine while it's being held under tension...anyway hope this helps some
as for the trigger, this last one took a little fussing to get set right, the creep screw kept backing out as it shot, so required a little loctite then sit overnight to cure, and it's been money every since, crisp 2 3/4 lbs single stage with great feel, it's my fav trigger of the 3, ruger is next best
CZ says it's perfectly fine and safe to single feed. I have done it a good bit with mine and have had zero problems.
I keep seeing folks say you have too run the bolt with your thumb from the back of the bolt. I have never had to do that and can't understand for the life of me why when someone would have to be doing this. Why you wouldn't try to figure out why and fix it.
But I have said before. If I could take the barrel, trigger and mag from the cz and put it on the howa action. It would be the perfect bolt action grendel.
looking for a 6.5gr bolt gun - Oso Polaris - 08-07-2020
Yesterday, I was out shooting my little pig rifle , CZ 527 chambered in 300BO, checking zero before a pig hunt. This is my first time shooting it since I recently replaced the bolt knob with a Badger Mini-Tactical knob. No issues operating bolt using the knob... no wracking issue. The wracking of the bolt is a combination of its small size/short handle with small knob coupled with heavy force by user. It is a small compact action with a short throw, which doesn't require much effort.. no more than your thumb to run it and an index finger to throw the handle. In most cases Gorilla grip causes the bolt wracking issue.
I know that CZ has stated that it is perfectly fine to single feed into chamber and force/pop the extractor claw over the rim, but I prefer not to. I bought the single load block from James Calhoun, which is designed to feed the cartridge up behind the extractor as push bolt forward. Its a clean, convenient solution that lives in my rifle until I am read to insert a 5-rounder with 110gr TAC-TX to pacify the bacon.
As far as extra tension from positive control feed of CZ's mausier action... I don't even notice it in the field. I guess all my years with a Rem 870 has prepared me for extra effort of working a control feed. Push Feeds are making you Soft! :eek:
looking for a 6.5gr bolt gun - riuma - 08-08-2020
It had been almost two decades since CZ 'fixed' the single feed issue with their extractor. I have a buddy that has a 22 Hornet CZ that must be fed from the magazine. My newer Hornets are fed single shot all the time. I have a 204, 22 Hornet (x2), 223, 300 AAC, 7.62x39(X2) and two 6.5 Grendels and toss rounds into the chambers of all of them. You are not "forcing" the extractor over the rim. They were been (re) designed around 2000 to function this way. Nine 527's purchased from 2005 to 2020. None have any feeding issues operating the bolt. None have issues with the extractor. Bedding and their 'set' trigger? Sometimes. (More so of late) If they start bedding their American series like the new Varmint bedding system, they will have a lot fewer complaints about bedding. All they will need work out is putting in a decent, single stage adjustable trigger and losing that cranky set trigger.~Riuma
looking for a 6.5gr bolt gun - Stinky Coyote - 08-10-2020
lol, i like that you ' ' around 'fixed' haha, i stand corrected, cz apparently tweaked the control round feed and made it some sort of hybrid
single feed away homies
looking for a 6.5gr bolt gun - JSH - 08-11-2020
Control round feed, maybe I am slipping.
A few 1903 Springfields, a couple of Military Mausers, and a Commercial Mauser, all have fed flawless smooth as glass no matter if from the magazine or toss a single in and close the bolt. Thousands of rounds poked down the barrel of the 03 and the Mauser, not one glitch I can recall.
After having my hands on no less than a dozen different 527s, they can be fickle. Some will feed single others refuse anything but from the magazine.
The excess in the bolt raceway is not the same on all of them. Some were fairly smooth, others were border line terrible.
As I mentioned before, CZ says it should single feed. If it doesnt they will fix it. My understanding from those that sent them back was they swapped extractors.
looking for a 6.5gr bolt gun - 218bee - 08-20-2020
I have a CZ American and a CZ MTR........for hunting the MTR might be a bit more than you want to carry around. My American had to be glass bedded before the fliers went away. Now the first three shots ( with handloaded ammo ) will fall into a little over 1/2". Next two shots will be together but about 1/2 " high. Wait for the barrel to cool and the next shot will punch into the first three. So.........for a hunting rifle, that is really good accuracy. I suspect the varmint would be a little more stable. My MTR has no problem putting multiple shots into the same tight cluster, never needed to do anything but adjust the trigger right out of the box.....................H322 is my powder of choice...............hope this helps.........Don in SC
looking for a 6.5gr bolt gun - Harpoon1 - 08-24-2020
Another option when single feeding the 527 is, once you insert the round into the receiver, then push/stuff the rim of the cartridge into and under the front of the mag lips. Its stupid quick and easy and that allows you to use longer than SAAMI rounds and still have the cartridge pop up from the mag under the extractor and cycle smoothly.
looking for a 6.5gr bolt gun - Stinky Coyote - 08-26-2020
Well I tried to single feed one Saturday in my cz and it wouldnt. Dont really care, as I dont shoot like that ever, was just curious.
looking for a 6.5gr bolt gun - Stinky Coyote - 08-26-2020
I too am sorry I went down the Howa road. Better to invest in a cz or a ruger at this point, or try to go full custom.
looking for a 6.5gr bolt gun - Oso Polaris - 08-26-2020
Give Calhoun a call and order one of his single round feed block for your CZ. The call and pursuing conversation you will have with him will be worth the price tag and then you will also receive a fine product. He is a gem to deal with. My feed block lives in my rifle and only gets replaced with a magazine when I am taking rifle into the field on a hunt.
looking for a 6.5gr bolt gun - Stinky Coyote - 08-27-2020
I only hunt, minor amount of range time in developing a rifle up. Never need to single feed, no desire. Always just fill the mag up when its empty. Good time to let it cool.
looking for a 6.5gr bolt gun - Sinclair - 08-27-2020
A5BLASTER Wrote:CZ says it's perfectly fine and safe to single feed. I have done it a good bit with mine and have had zero problems.
I keep seeing folks say you have too run the bolt with your thumb from the back of the bolt. I have never had to do that and can't understand for the life of me why when someone would have to be doing this. Why you wouldn't try to figure out why and fix it.
But I have said before. If I could take the barrel, trigger and mag from the cz and put it on the howa action. It would be the perfect bolt action grendel.
A5, the fly in the buttermilk is that it is easier to push with your thumb, than to "fix" the problem. On mine, if I apply pressure on the bolt to the left, it feeds smooth as silk. It is just easier to slip the thumb along the bolt handle to about 1/3 the way from the bolt body and just close the bolt with my thumb. The problem is that CZ left the third lug that is hidden under the extractor off of the 527. Too small, cost reduction, who knows, but without it the bolt wants to twist to the right and bind as you push on the handle knob as in a '98 Mauser. Frankly, I have never owned a rifle that did not have some quirk to it, just my luck? I do not know, but it is a very minor issue to me. Improvise, adapt, overcome!
Back on topic, at my age I am too cantankerous to spend a lot of time fiddling with a gun. My CZ came generously insetted. After I shot it few times to confirm it was a keeper, I installed Pilars, let the epoxy cure for a few days, taped the stock, sprayed Spam on all of the metal parts and glass bed the action. It shoots better that I can. My 300 yd 10 round groups are about 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 MOA. But, the inner 3 to 5 holes are a clover leaf or at least touching. Good enough for the girls that I hunt with! Would I buy another CZ, YES.