Harpoon1 Wrote:For your sake, I sincerely hope it works in your gun. I tried some Black & SST’s today thinking the polymer tips may help, wrong! It’s actually worse using them. The first round strips off and feeds no problem. The second one however, almost without fail, would porpoises and jam. Then, the remaining rounds are so far forward in the mag, because of the spacer, it’s almost impossible to back off the bolt just enough to release the pressure on the first round without backing off too much and picking up the second also. Now you’ve got a double feed to deal with. In a word it sucks!

I actually think the overall feeding issue is worse now than with stock setup. And that’s saying something.

Now for the good news, the Magpul stock works fanatastic with the RAP 243. I ran everything from 58 grn sp to 100 grn SP, without even a hint of a problem. S&B, PPU, Federal, Winchester, all perfect. It was flawlesss. It’s like it’s a brand new gun, amazing. Couldn’t be happier.

Ran it with the recommended Magpul AICS Brown follower mags first, perfect. Then tired the original gray followers, no problem. Then with the Ruger proprietary mag, perfect, again no issues. Night and day compared to the Grendel. :mad:

grayfox Wrote:Looks like that to me..... charcoal color outside.
Actually I didn't know there were different colors, these are just the 5-rd ones from, hmmmm, midwayusa I think...
maybe optics planet.
anyway...

grayfox Wrote:I'll look in the morning to see any diff's, I have several in use, for 308, 6.5, 243... maybe I can see some deltas...

Quote:.........my Howa action arrives tomorrow

Harpoon1 Wrote:Both setups, the factory and Magpul, single feed by hand just fine with high rates of success. As soon as you try stripping rounds from the mag, it all goes downhill.

It’s almost tolerable using the modified ASC mag in the factory stock. Almost. I don’t care sloppy magwell fit but, if it would feed even somewhat reliably, I could overlook it.

It seems to me, the biggest problem with AI AICS/Primal Rights conversion is it appears to be over sprung, at least the 5 round version does. So when the rim clears the feed lips, it gets catapulted, driving the nose of the bullet below the back of the chamber. Once I can figure out how to get some tension off the spring and still feed all 5 rounds, I’ll give it another go.

It’s ridiculous, they can figure out how to get the Grendel to feed reliably in an AR but, have so much trouble with a simple bolt gun. I don’t get it.

A5BLASTER Wrote:Should beable to cut the flat spring in that aics mag down one coil or flat if you want to call it that. Put it back together and try it out. If removing one flat is too much stretch the flat spring by hand and retry it.

Harpoon1 Wrote:It’s been my experience that you can’t “stretch” a spring back out, once it’s been cut/collapsed, that’s the “new” length and poundage. Sure, you can “stretch” it out but, once it’s been compressed again, it’s going to revert back to were it was before being “stretched”.

Anyway, the more I examine this AI/Primal Rights conversion, the less hopeful I am it’s going to work with the Grendel and the RAP action. Comparing it to the Howa mags, a reliable, working example. The feed lips are shorter on the AI mag, stopping right at the top of the case shoulder, whereas the Howa feed lips extend all the way to the top of the case. And this is where the trouble begins, as the case negotiates this transition zone, over the shoulder and neck of the case below it. With the Howa, the feed lips help support the case through this transition zone, with the tip of the bullet being held relatively stable, and parallel to the bore axis. However, with the AI conversion, the feed lips stop, right as the upper case starts to ride over the shoulder of the case beneath it, causing the nose of the round being stripped to pitch down before it even clears the mag. And once in this nose down attitude, it’s a crap shoot whether the round is going to feed properly from this nose down attitude or not.

Bummer!

Having said that, Ive gone ahead and collapsed a section of the spring in one the AI mags to relieve some of the force during this transition and I’m going to start bending the feed lips and see where this takes me. Can’t win unless you play!

Harpoon1 Wrote:Anyway, the more I examine this AI/Primal Rights conversion, the less hopeful I am it’s going to work with the Grendel and the RAP action. Comparing it to the Howa mags, a reliable, working example. The feed lips are shorter on the AI mag, stopping right at the top of the case shoulder, whereas the Howa feed lips extend all the way to the top of the case.

Frontier Gear Wrote:The Howa and the CZ are both known for trouble free feeding with the Grendel and both use a proprietary mag. The Howa is a center feed and I "think" that the CZ is as well. The Grendel can just be a bugger to get to feed reliably at times.

I've had two RAPs in 6.5 Grendel and both of them were really picky about the position of the mag. The bottom of the mag "rocks" back and forth in the stock. If the bottom of the mag was pushed forward at all (the back of the mag moved down in the action and the tip of the bullets pointing up more), it didn't want to feed. If it was too far forward, the bolt would actually skip over the top of the round completely.

Also, the AR mags are much stiffer and there is a lot more drag between the shell case and the feed lip than there is on a Howa mag. Mine were leaving big ol' scratches on my brass. In the end I gave up, sold them both and purchased another Howa. I hope that you can figure yours out though and post the fix for everyone else.

TNhuntsman Wrote:This is what I was thinking, mentioned it earlier when I compared the feedlips on the Magpul AICS mag that came with the Hunter stock to the AR mag that came with the RAP. I would seat one round the appropriate spacing in the Magpul AICS and then try to load it but it would jam.
I have a AI AICS 5-rd coming and have a 5-rd and 10-rd primal rights conversion kit already, may hold off on buying the AI AICS 10-rd until I mess with the 5-rd.

Wonder if primal rights will refund my money if thier conversion kit doesn't work correctly.

TNhuntsman Wrote:This is what I was thinking, mentioned it earlier when I compared the feedlips on the Magpul AICS mag that came with the Hunter stock to the AR mag that came with the RAP. I would seat one round the appropriate spacing in the Magpul AICS and then try to load it but it would jam.
I have a AI AICS 5-rd coming and have a 5-rd and 10-rd primal rights conversion kit already, may hold off on buying the AI AICS 10-rd until I mess with the 5-rd.

Wonder if primal rights will refund my money if thier conversion kit doesn't work correctly.