Klem Wrote:Mongoose,

Interesting wetpack results. I do know there's someone on the Blackout forum who casts similar size weight lead and then drills a hollow-point into them using a jig. He is trying to emulate the handgun type projectiles with their overly large hollows - a reasonable idea given subsonic Blackout is pretty much the same dynamic.

I have been thinking that if someone could manufacture a round with a very thin serrated jacket full of powdered lead then that would dump pretty much all the energy on the target. A while back I have used powdered lead shotgun shells, and at other times 12-shot for knocking out hinges of doors during entry. This to minimize overpenetration into the stronghold.

I emailed Cor-Bon with the idea a while ago but did not receive a reply. Probably processed by someone who thought I was a nutter (not far from the truth). As you know Cor-Bon makes the 'Glaser Safety Slug'; an thin-jacketed round with a expander ball at the front and fine lead shot behind it. Designed for aircraft entry and Sky-Marshals. In a 220-230gr 30cal Blackout with either powder or fine shot that would work nicely dumping all the energy on the target with no over-penetration.

Klem Wrote:...no temp-wound-cavity in flesh... no temp-wound-cavity in its wake. If you haven't hit anything critical in the crush-trail you end up shaking your head at the irresponsibility of wounding an animal in flight.....So it's all up to shot placement and crush trail....

Nukes Wrote:In ELASTIC tissue, e.g., "flesh" and "guts," the temporary wound cavity makes no significant contribution to the terminal effects. The temporary wound cavity only makes a significant contribution in INELASTIC tissues, e.g., brain, bone, liver.

"Shot placement and crush trail (permanent wound channel)" are indeed what are most significant.

As for Glaser Safety Slugs, they make ugly looking superficial wounds. I would never trust the life of anyone I love to such projectiles.

ricsmall Wrote:I've been out for a few days but I think this .30 cal Grendel has already been done. Check out the .308 arrow from arrow Arms. The only brass for it comes from hornady, dies from hornady, and the factory sells you Grendel mags. It's a bad little number. Oh yeah, the factory bolts are AA marked Grendel bolts. My buddy has one. AFAIK, all brass and dies have to be ordered from arrow arms, or at least that's all we found bout a year ago.

Richard

Nukes Wrote:In ELASTIC tissue, e.g., "flesh" and "guts," the temporary wound cavity makes no significant contribution to the terminal effects. The temporary wound cavity only makes a significant contribution in INELASTIC tissues, e.g., brain, bone, liver.

Quote:According to Col. Fackler it is the permanent cavity which represents the wound mechanism, and the wounding effects of the temporary cavity are generally exaggerated. For example, some of the human parts like lungs, blood vessels bowel walls, etc., are elastic enough and tolerate stretching. Of course, solid tissue such as liver may not be so resilient.

There is a general impression that sonic waves set up by relatively high speed bullets could kill by damaging a large number of nerves through shock. This was refuted by Col. Fackler who opined that there was no solid evidence for this conclusion as the pressure peak of about 100 atmospheres had a duration of only two microseconds. It, therefore, did not move or harm the tissues.

The real fact is that the wound size may be independent of the muzzle velocity. For example, the bullet of mid to late 19th century had the velocity of around 400 m/s (which is low by present standards), but it produced large permanent and temporary cavities as the bullet was made of lead which deformed on striking the target, thus increasing its area and capacity for tissue disruption while the high mass ensured that it retained its capacity to penetrate.

The fact is that the real parameters which one should look for in a rifle are both the mass and the velocity of the bullet -and not velocity alone at the point of impact. To quote Col Fackler, The potential for tissue disruption depends on mass and velocity realisation depends on bullet construction, shape and interaction with target tissue, the type of tissue it hits. You can't say that a certain velocity in every case will give an X amount of damage.

Quote:While not a primary wounding mechanism, the secondary effect of wounding through tissue expansion is worthy of further study as both an aid to future ammunition design and firearm forensic investigations.

Quote:"The size and the shape of the temporary cavity depend on the amount of kinetic energy lost by the bullet in its path through the tissue, how rapidly the energy is lost, and the elasticity and cohesiveness of the tissue. The maximum volume and diameter of this cavity are many times the volume and diameter of the bullet. Maximum expansion of the cavity does not occur until some time after the bullet has passed through the target. [Emphasis added.] The temporary cavity phenomenon is significant because it has been found to be the most important factor in determining the extent of the wounding in an individual in regard to the interaction of a bullet with the body. In the case of low-velocity missiles, e.g., pistol bullets, the bullet produces a direct path of destruction with very little lateral extension within the surrounding tissues. Only a small temporary cavity is produced. To cause significant injuries to a structure, a pistol bullet must strike that structure directly. The amount of kinetic energy lost in the tissue by a pistol bullet is insignificant to cause the remote injuries produced by a high-velocity rifle bullet.

drykilned Wrote:Does anyone know what has happened to the 30ARX? I need any available info on building one with parts from anyone other than ARX (TOO EXPENSIVE FOR A
COMMON RETIREE)

drykilned Wrote:Does anyone know what has happened to the 30ARX? I need any available info on building one with parts from anyone other than ARX (TOO EXPENSIVE FOR A
COMMON RETIREE)

sarky Wrote:So it is an improved 7.62x39 that uses .308 bullets instead of .311?