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Ruger American in 6.5 Grendel - LRRPF52 - 02-02-2018
biodsl Wrote:Funny how people see things differently. I would have described the Creedmoor as a Grendel Long.
It sure predates the 6.5 Creedmoor by several years.
The 6.5 Grendel is one of the only cartridges developed recently that originated from a small shop and received SAAMI standardization, and now has Hornady, Federal Fusion, Federal American Eagle, Federal Gold Medal Match, Wolf Steel case, and CIP standardization.
There are only a handful of cartridges that have steel case and Federal Gold Medal Match options. 6.5 Creedmoor is not one of them, although I really like 6.5 Creedmoor and love watching it throw .308 to the last century as the go-to long range cartridge as we finally catch up with over 100 years of capability.
If you hold a mini action versus a short action, I think there is a huge argument in favor of the Grendel as a lightweight, handy, low recoil option for most hunters and target shooters.
The 6.5 Creedmoor definitely has an advantage in competition and hunting reach, with roughly 200yds additional performance with some weight and recoil penalties.
Ruger American in 6.5 Grendel - mongoosesnipe - 02-02-2018
I kind of chuckle at the creedmore i mean its a great round but it doesnt really do anything new, the 6.5x47 lapua was functionally the same thing as far as seating the bullets out farther in a short action and pre dates it by a few minutes, the 260 has been around for 30 years as a SAAMI cartridge, and the 6.5x55 basically dates back to the beginning of smokeless powder and other than action length none of them do anything particularly new, the grendel nitch is fitting into ar15 and micro bolt actions honestly inside 1200 yards there really hasnt been a dramatic improvement in the 6.5s over the swede other than platform obviously the lighter moving mass and improved lock time of modern actions are an improvement over the mauser but cartridge wise you would be hard pressed to improve upon swede performace in a modern action with modern components in a practical manner
Ruger American in 6.5 Grendel - usmcm16a2 - 02-02-2018
Folks,
The only thing that concerns me is the stock, if it is anything like the Ruger American I had in 7mm-08 oh boy. The forearm was like chewing gum, it flexed horribly. I do not expect McMillian quality, but a good stock that anchors the rifle well, and does not flex. Even with a bipod. A2
Ruger American in 6.5 Grendel - usmcm16a2 - 02-02-2018
Folks,
Well, just got my questions answered. I watched the video with Rugers rep saying they redid the stock. Making it stiffer, kudos Ruger! A2
Ruger American in 6.5 Grendel - Frontier Gear - 02-03-2018
Well I have one in my hot little hands. Sorry for the grainy pictures.
Overall, I'd say that it is exactly as I expected. A Ruger American that takes AR mags. Here it is above my son's Ruger American Predator in 308.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]11000[/ATTACH]
It ships with one ten round C-Products Defense mag.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]11004[/ATTACH]
The stock is "better" but it is still obviously a plastic stock. It's not as flimsy as some other Ruger American stocks that I've seen, but it is pretty squishy. The biggest improvement is in the magazine. I've always hated the Ruger American rotary magazines and they have totally changed that. It almost looks like you could replace the stock and keep the mag well or vice-versa.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]10999[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]11001[/ATTACH]
The mag well stops right after the magazine catch. This allows for a little "rocking" motion of the magazine. I didn't notice it with the ten round mag, but it was noticeable with the larger capacity mag. I'd almost rather them extend the magwell down some to support the magazine more since you can't use flush mount mags anyways. My large C-Products mag was tight in the Ruger. That particular mag is tight in some of my AR lowers as well. I tried one C-Products 10 round mag, 1 C-Products 20 round mag and two E-Lander 10 round mags. They all worked well except for the 20 round C-Products (which has some issues in certain ARs as well).
[ATTACH=CONFIG]11002[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]11003[/ATTACH]
You can't close the bolt with an empty mag unless you drop the mag or push the follower down with your finger.
Ruger American in 6.5 Grendel - Jmccracken - 02-03-2018
Very nice. I hope to order one next week. Not sure how long it will take to get here, as they seem to be out of stock everywhere.
I wonder if places like Boyds, will be able to make a stock for this, with the mag well the way it is. I hope so.
Ruger American in 6.5 Grendel - grayfox - 02-03-2018
Right now, when I talked to Boyds ~ week ago, their stocks are only for the earlier version of the RAP, they don't work with the AR mag style of stock.
Course that may change in the future... who knows.
Ruger American in 6.5 Grendel - Frontier Gear - 02-03-2018
It will be interesting to see what the after market parts are for these. A few more thoughts:
- The magazine catch and button look exactly like AR parts. I'd have to take it apart to verify for sure, but right now I'm about 90% sure that they are.
- Ruger kind if mis-marketed this by putting it in their "Predator" line in my opinion. At this length of gun, it may as well be a 6.5 Creedmoor. It has the same length and weight as their new Predator in 6.5 Creedmoor that takes AI mags. I know that some people would want the Grendel over the Creedmoor just for recoil reasons, but it should really be in their "Ranch" line with a 16" barrel. I'm tempted to have the barrel on this one cut down.
- With the AR mags it takes a bit more force to close the bolt and load a round. If you think about it, AR bolts are spring loaded and there is more force pushing that round out of the mag than I often realize. I took the spring out of my side charging upper once just to see how hard it was to load a round with no spring assistance. It takes a fair amount of force. The Ruger American is kind of the same way. It's not a buttery smooth transition like some bolt actions. It takes some "assertiveness". I think it has to do with the magazines though and not so much the rifle.
I still need a scope and mount for it, but I will give it a good cleaning and get it ready for the range. It is nice that it takes the same mags as my other Grendels. After I shoot it and get a better feel for it, I can decide if I want to cut it down and make it a "Ranch" gun or keep it long and maybe replace the stock on it at a later date for a coyote gun. There is a big hay barn out in the middle of a field that is great for sniping coyotes out of. Shot opportunities go out to 1,000 yards which is well past my capability.
Ruger American in 6.5 Grendel - Jmccracken - 02-03-2018
Frontier Gear Wrote:It will be interesting to see what the after market parts are for these. A few more thoughts:
- The magazine catch and button look exactly like AR parts. I'd have to take it apart to verify for sure, but right now I'm about 90% sure that they are.
- Ruger kind if mis-marketed this by putting it in their "Predator" line in my opinion. At this length of gun, it may as well be a 6.5 Creedmoor. It has the same length and weight as their new Predator in 6.5 Creedmoor that takes AI mags. I know that some people would want the Grendel over the Creedmoor just for recoil reasons, but it should really be in their "Ranch" line with a 16" barrel. I'm tempted to have the barrel on this one cut down.
- With the AR mags it takes a bit more force to close the bolt and load a round. If you think about it, AR bolts are spring loaded and there is more force pushing that round out of the mag than I often realize. I took the spring out of my side charging upper once just to see how hard it was to load a round with no spring assistance. It takes a fair amount of force. The Ruger American is kind of the same way. It's not a buttery smooth transition like some bolt actions. It takes some "assertiveness". I think it has to do with the magazines though and not so much the rifle.
I still need a scope and mount for it, but I will give it a good cleaning and get it ready for the range. It is nice that it takes the same mags as my other Grendels. After I shoot it and get a better feel for it, I can decide if I want to cut it down and make it a "Ranch" gun or keep it long and maybe replace the stock on it at a later date for a coyote gun. There is a big hay barn out in the middle of a field that is great for sniping coyotes out of. Shot opportunities go out to 1,000 yards which is well past my capability.
I understand the barrel issue, but why 16? why not 18?
What are the velocity differences from 22 to 16?
Ruger American in 6.5 Grendel - Frontier Gear - 02-03-2018
Not much difference between 16"-18". Rule of thumb is 50fps per inch. Some 16" barrels get higher velocities than 18" barrels though. It's pretty barrel specific. So if I'm going to cut it off, I'm going to make it as short as I can.
Ruger American in 6.5 Grendel - stumpjumper3d - 02-03-2018
I agree it should have been 16 inch ranch rifle. In this 22 inch lenght you might has well get 6.5 creedmore. Howa seems to be hung up on a mag for the mini, which I hate . I may just get rid of my mini and get a ranch rifle in 7.62x39, even if has a mag which maybe a 5 round mag will be closer to the bottom of the stock. Has anyone put a 5 rd mag in the 7.62x39 ranch rifle?
Ruger American in 6.5 Grendel - Jmccracken - 02-03-2018
I may buy 2 of these. I've got 3 gun stores waiting for their distributor to get some in stock for me to order. I'd like a second one and cut the barrel down, but I like the idea of a 22"
Ruger American in 6.5 Grendel - Frontier Gear - 02-03-2018
Yep, finding them in stock is going to be a challenge for a while. I think that Ruger underestimated the popularity of these and didn't make enough. They sold out quickly.
Ruger American in 6.5 Grendel - Jmccracken - 02-03-2018
Frontier Gear Wrote:Yep, finding them in stock is going to be a challenge for a while. I think that Ruger underestimated the popularity of these and didn't make enough. They sold out quickly.
I hope one of the 3 stores i called, gets atleast 1. Im selling my AR upper this weekend, so ill have the cash!
Ruger American in 6.5 Grendel - Frontier Gear - 02-03-2018
Jmccracken Wrote:I hope one of the 3 stores i called, gets atleast 1. Im selling my AR upper this weekend, so ill have the cash!
Sending you a PM. I have a few Grendels so I can part with this one. I won't really be ready for it until spring anyways. By then hopefully the supply lines will have filled back up again.
Ruger American in 6.5 Grendel - ricsmall - 02-04-2018
I think the velocity loss for Grendel is around 25-30 fps per inch IIRC. There is a chart in the Grendel handbook from Paul. This is the reason for the popularity of the 16-18” pipes over the 22-24”. Even the 12.5” Grendel’s are holding their own out to medium range.
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?3007-Barrel-Length-and-Velocity
ETA: Found the old chart from years ago
Ruger American in 6.5 Grendel - LRRPF52 - 02-05-2018
ricsmall Wrote:I think the velocity loss for Grendel is around 25-30 fps per inch IIRC. There is a chart in the Grendel handbook from Paul. This is the reason for the popularity of the 16-18” pipes over the 22-24”. Even the 12.5” Grendel’s are holding their own out to medium range.Joe made that chart. Barrel loss per inch is not a linear function, since you have different curves based on the optimum length for the case capacity, working pressure, and projectile shape/weight with given bore volumes.
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?3007-Barrel-Length-and-Velocity
ETA: Found the old chart from years ago
I did a science project focusing on barrel length with the 6.5 Grendel and found something like 18fps per inch difference between various 16" and 20" rifles shooting the same loads, so roughly 76fps mv difference between a 16" and a 20".
Ruger American in 6.5 Grendel - Jmccracken - 02-05-2018
LRRPF52 Wrote:Joe made that chart. Barrel loss per inch is not a linear function, since you have different curves based on the optimum length for the case capacity, working pressure, and projectile shape/weight with given bore volumes.
I did a science project focusing on barrel length with the 6.5 Grendel and found something like 18fps per inch difference between various 16" and 20" rifles shooting the same loads, so roughly 76fps mv difference between a 16" and a 20".
76fps isnt even worth worrying about either. Wont make much difference will it?
Ruger American in 6.5 Grendel - mongoosesnipe - 02-06-2018
the only place 76fps might make a difference is if you are target shooting out to 1k that 76fps at the muzzle might keep you above trans sonic where the slower may not depending on the bullet but at hunting ranges animals wont know the difference and you will be above the 1800fps threshold out past 400 with either, i used 2425 and 2500 in the balistics calculator and uses the 129 ablr as bullet (i know the expansion is down to 1300 but wanted to keep it 1800 for the purpose of generalization) and how many of us are shooting at game past 400 anyway so...
Ruger American in 6.5 Grendel - explorecaves - 02-06-2018
mongoosesnipe Wrote:the only place 76fps might make a difference is if you are target shooting out to 1k that 76fps at the muzzle might keep you above trans sonic where the slower may not depending on the bullet but at hunting ranges animals wont know the difference and you will be above the 1800fps threshold out past 400 with either, i used 2425 and 2500 in the balistics calculator and uses the 129 ablr as bullet (i know the expansion is down to 1300 but wanted to keep it 1800 for the purpose of generalization) and how many of us are shooting at game past 400 anyway so...
Depends how much of a lead my enemies get.... oh wait, was that out loud?