fictitious war...pick your arms

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fictitious war...pick your arms - 79inpa - 04-04-2016

So your involved in a fictitious war and need to arm yourself with a semi auto rifle.

you may choose between the ar-15 and ar10 platforms.

for an all around rifle which barrel length do you buy into and what caliber do you pick.

6.5 creedmore
6.5 Grendel
5.56
.308
others?

fictitious war...pick your arms - mongoosesnipe - 04-04-2016

so in this fictitious war i am not restricted by supply train issues but am restricted to platform

probably ar15-grendel over the ar10-creedmore as the increased weight vs range potential would be out weighed by ease of transport and increased ammo carrying ability....

fictitious war...pick your arms - stanc - 04-04-2016

Need more info:

What caliber small arms is the enemy using?

Who is the enemy? (Conventional army? Guerrillas/Rebels? Terrorists?)

What is the geography? (Desert? Arctic? Jungle? Mountains?)

Will there be resupply as needed?

Will we be invading another country, or defending against an invasion?

fictitious war...pick your arms - LRRPF52 - 04-04-2016

Not knowing any other parameters as Stan mentioned, the large frame guns are automatically off the list since they suck at riflemen tasks for the close fight, and disallow you from carrying a basic load that can last more than 2-3 realistic bases of fire, while weighing you down excessively. Clearing rooms with 7.62 NATO will rock your skull into new meanings of overpressure, if you haven't tried it yet. Even an AK will disorient you in the house without good protection. You can go have a professional boxer glove up with light mitts and beat your face repeatedly for about the same effect.

I would go 14.5" Grendel with 1/7.5" twist, suppressed with a dedicated reflex-type can that doesn't backblast into the bore, so overall length of the carbine would not be much over a standard M4 profile.

Slim & lightweight handguard with dedicated 12 o'clock rail, integral QD sockets up front for sling.

Electro-Optics I won't elaborate on.

This system would cover contact distance CQB out to 1000m/1100yds, in a 6lb gun without even trying to make the receivers lighter, normal barrel profile, nothing crazy. If you wanted to lighten it up, you could really shed some weight, as the Electro-Optical system would add at least 1.5lbs.

fictitious war...pick your arms - SHORT-N-SASSY - 04-04-2016

79inpa Wrote:So your involved in a fictitious war and need to arm yourself with a semi auto rifle.

you may choose between the ar-15 and ar10 platforms.

for an all around rifle which barrel length do you buy into and what caliber do you pick.

6.5 creedmore
6.5 Grendel
5.56
.308
others?

[SIZE="3"]We're in the 2nd decade of the 21st Century. Why would we be limiting ourselves to the AR platform?

I would have preferred the 6.5mm Grendel chambering, but I'll take the 6.5mm Creedmoor, in the upcoming Micro Dynamic Rifle, DMR version ---
[Image: 2ces1t1.jpg]

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fictitious war...pick your arms - mike garus - 04-04-2016

Ak74n

fictitious war...pick your arms - stanc - 04-04-2016

SHORT-N-SASSY Wrote:We're in the 2nd decade of the 21st Century. Why would we be limiting ourselves to the AR platform?

I can't speak for the OP, but one possibility comes to mind: AR variants are in service with a number of the world's armed forces. The MDR is not.

There is also the question of whether or not the MDR has the requisite characteristics (reliability, durability, etc) to be acceptable for military use.

Of course, the OP isn't clear if he means pick a gun and ammo for use by an army, or a private individual.

fictitious war...pick your arms - cory - 04-05-2016

What are my restrictions and who am I at war with?

fictitious war...pick your arms - SHORT-N-SASSY - 04-05-2016

[SIZE="3"]fictitious war ... pick your arms

These Pages are filled with discussions on why the U.S. Military today continues with variations on the theme of the original 1960's M16, and NATO continues with the .223/5.56x45mm . . . a cartridge that some writers have referred to as a "varmint round." That's our "real" world. I saw the OP's choice of "fictitious" as the great escape from that mindset, which has marooned us in the 20th Century:

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2009/10/15/innovation-in-the-american-firearms-industry/
http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2010/5/24/innovation-in-the-gun-business/
http://innovationtrail.org/post/innovation-gun-industry

One need only visit the movies to get a glimpse of future weapons design ---
[Image: 2v2zfwz.png]

We've come a long way in the recognition that shorter, more compact is better.

Then:
[Image: 15xsa6r.jpg]

Today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIuREEXHQ3Q

I'd like to think that if we still had the design genius of the late Eugene Morrison Stoner with us today, we might see the reality of today's forward thinkers ---
[Image: 242dg76.jpg]

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fictitious war...pick your arms - LR1955 - 04-05-2016

SHORT-N-SASSY Wrote:[SIZE="3"]fictitious war ... pick your arms

These Pages are filled with discussions on why the U.S. Military today continues with variations on the theme of the original 1960's M16, and NATO continues with the .223/5.56x45mm . . . a cartridge that some writers have referred to as a "varmint round." That's our "real" world. I saw the OP's choice of "fictitious" as the great escape from that mindset, which has marooned us in the 20th Century:

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2009/10/15/innovation-in-the-american-firearms-industry/
http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2010/5/24/innovation-in-the-gun-business/
http://innovationtrail.org/post/innovation-gun-industry

One need only visit the movies to get a glimpse of future weapons design ---

We've come a long way in the recognition that shorter, more compact is better.

Then:

Today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIuREEXHQ3Q

I'd like to think that if we still had the design genius of the late Eugene Morrison Stoner with us today, we might see the reality of today's forward thinkers ---

[/SIZE]

SAS:

Guys on this forum wouldn't like to hear Stoner too much. He believed in the 300 meter notion about engagement ranges and when I heard him speak about 28 years ago or so, he mentioned that it may (may) be better just to have a fully automatic carbine with a very large capacity magazine shooting tracer. Shooting would be done primarily from the hip because it is more natural than trying to bring the carbine up to the eyes. No sights either. Easier to train someone to walk tracer into a target than the old 'sight alignment, sight picture'. Sorry but such cartridges as the Grendel would be considered unnecessarily heavy and overkill.

I shot either the AE you are showing or something very similar. 5.56. Reach to the trigger was too long, trigger pull horrible, and lacking in basic ergonomics. It felt like trying to point a block of rectangular wood. Look at the movie picture of the robot or what ever it is. Reach to trigger too long, and he has to cant the carbine into his eyes. Although the artist probably thought this would enhance the aggressive nature of the movie, it actually is pretty much correct in reality.

My take is that if a person has to cant the rifle to his eyes in order to be effective, the rifle or carbine was not designed well.

Looks cool, functioned, and not made to fit the human body.

Not picking a fight, just commenting on a belief that in order to be modern, one must make something look different even though its basic level of effectiveness has not changed for 110 plus years (since semi-smokeless powder and jacketed bullets).

LR55

fictitious war...pick your arms - bwaites - 04-05-2016

Callahan Full Bore Auto Lock. (As long as there is oxygen in the surrounding environment!)

fictitious war...pick your arms - stanc - 04-05-2016

Vera good choice. Wink

fictitious war...pick your arms - stanc - 04-05-2016

SHORT-N-SASSY Wrote:I saw the OP's choice of "fictitious" as the great escape from that mindset, which has marooned us in the 20th Century...

I guess you missed the part where he said, "you may choose between the ar-15 and ar10 platforms."

Quote:One need only visit the movies to get a glimpse of future weapons design...

Not exactly. The guns that one sees in the movies are, at best, what the designer imagines that future weapons might look like, not necessarily what they will look like.

(That could possibly be an interesting project: Look at movies of decades past and see how their concepts of early 21st century military weapons compare to what is actually in service.)

Quote:We've come a long way in the recognition that shorter, more compact is better.

Indeed. And yet, the US Army still shows no interest in the bullpup configuration (for rifles). Note that the new Compact Semi-Auto Sniper System is an AR10 variant.

Plus, New Zealand recently decided to replace the AUG bullpup with an AR15 variant.

fictitious war...pick your arms - bwaites - 04-05-2016

stanc Wrote:Vera good choice.

LOL!!! Well played, sir, well played!

fictitious war...pick your arms - Klem - 04-06-2016

Phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.

fictitious war...pick your arms - JASmith - 04-06-2016

Klem Wrote:Phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.

Interesting point -- my first thought is that I can hold my hand on a freshly lit 40 watt bulb for some time.

Then, I realized that not much energy is needed to disrupt a key nerve.
Then the idea popped up: calculate the power generated when a 5.56 bullet is slowed from midrange velocity to a complete stop in about 30 cm.

Don't have time right now, but am hoping one of the mathematically inclined does it before I do!

fictitious war...pick your arms - SHORT-N-SASSY - 04-06-2016

[SIZE="3"]When I researched the "6.2x34[mm]" shown on the AE-0006+ future assault rifle concept, I found the results --- interesting:

http://daisukekazama.deviantart.com/art/AE0006-Full-Design-Sheet-193393990

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/30214-62x34mm-electro-thermal-tungsten-pulse-rounds/

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/30208-heklerkok-pr-1/
[/SIZE]

fictitious war...pick your arms - LR1955 - 04-06-2016

SHORT-N-SASSY Wrote:[SIZE="3"]When I researched the "6.2x34[mm]" shown on the AE-0006+ future assault rifle concept, I found the results --- interesting:

http://daisukekazama.deviantart.com/art/AE0006-Full-Design-Sheet-193393990

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/30214-62x34mm-electro-thermal-tungsten-pulse-rounds/

http://starwarsrp.net/topic/30208-heklerkok-pr-1/
[/SIZE]

SAS:

'Best in the galaxy', eh?

Citing some pretty strange web sites there, old boy.

Fantasy web sites are probably not exactly reliable sources.

LR55

fictitious war...pick your arms - JASmith - 04-06-2016

LR1955 Wrote:...Fantasy web sites are probably not exactly reliable sources.

LR55

...but may be appropriate for this thread.

After all, we've hundreds of pages of serious debate over alternative military cartridges. The OP appears to have attempted another discussion of the topic but with constraints that avoid much of the nay-saying some of our members are wont to engage in.

Some of us who have wearied of the debate took unfair advantage of the OP's less than clear statement of constraints on the debate by interjecting some fantasy and humor.

Should the OP want a serious discussion, the best strategy may now be to allow this thread to play out and go to ground for awhile. Then start a fresh thread with at least some of the loop-holes our folks took 'unfair' advantage of to divert the discussion from what I think the desired purpose was.

fictitious war...pick your arms - stanc - 04-06-2016

JASmith Wrote:...but may be appropriate for this thread.

After all, we've hundreds of pages of serious debate over alternative military cartridges. The OP appears to have attempted another discussion of the topic but with constraints that avoid much of the nay-saying some of our members are wont to engage in.

Some of us who have wearied of the debate took unfair advantage of the OP's less than clear statement of constraints on the debate by interjecting some fantasy and humor.

:confused: Hmm. Exactly what part of "you may choose between the ar-15 and ar10 platforms" is at all unclear???