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+--- Thread: Les Baer says his ar15 Grendel cannot handle a suppressor? (/showthread.php?tid=13611)
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Les Baer says his ar15 Grendel cannot handle a suppressor? - Asahi1234 - 07-01-2017
I have a Les Baer 6.5 Grendel with 20inch barrel. I had the barrel threaded for a Thunder Beast muzzle break. I called Les Baer asked his opinion on with adjustable gas block to use. He said his ar15 6.5 Grendel couldn't handle the pressure. I told him thats the purpose of the adjustable gas block. He said if I add the adjustable gas block and suppressor it will void my warranty. I said Les Baer ar15 are the only ar15 in the world that cannot use suppressor his said yes. Spoke with my gunsmith he said there is NO reason not to use a suppressor. What is your opinion? Is there anyone out there with a Les Baer ar15 using are ar15? Thanks
Les Baer says his ar15 Grendel cannot handle a suppressor? - Kilco - 07-01-2017
Very interesting... mechanically speaking, did he say exactly why? I'll be following this for when the greater minds chime in.
Les Baer says his ar15 Grendel cannot handle a suppressor? - Asahi1234 - 07-01-2017
He said the gun couldn't handle the pressure. I told him thats why you use a adjustable gas block. But he said it still wouldn't work. And then he said it would void my warranty. I guess he doesn't like suppressor? He still couldn't give me a good reason other than over pressure. But that's why you use adjustable gas block.
Les Baer says his ar15 Grendel cannot handle a suppressor? - ricsmall - 07-02-2017
Unless he's using inferior bolts? I don't know that just guessing.
Les Baer says his ar15 Grendel cannot handle a suppressor? - jcjarmon - 07-03-2017
Wait a minute, why would Les Baer, the creator of .264LBC, even be cambering an AR in 6.5 Grendel. Who did you talk to? Somethings not right. Every gunsmith I know uses a PG&T .264LBC reamer set for 6.5 Grendel chambers. The tighter throat of the .264 gives a little more muzzle velocity.
Les Baer says his ar15 Grendel cannot handle a suppressor? - LRRPF52 - 07-03-2017
jcjarmon Wrote:Wait a minute, why would Les Baer, the creator of .264LBC, even be cambering an AR in 6.5 Grendel. Who did you talk to? Somethings not right. Every gunsmith I know uses a PG&T .264LBC reamer set for 6.5 Grendel chambers. The tighter throat of the .264 gives a little more muzzle velocity.If a gunsmith even mentions using a PT&G reamer for any cartridge I'm chambering in, I insist on Manson or JGS instead. If they insist on PT&G, I take my business elsewhere. Been bitten in the rear too many times with .223 Wylde, 5.56 NATO, and .308 Winchester chambers using PT&G reamers.
Especially for 6.5 Grendel, if a gunsmith insists on using ".264 LBC". (Les Baer's chamber is the .264 LBC-AR with specific call-outs that I would go to Les Baer for, nobody else), when you ask for 6.5 Grendel, understand what capabilities and limitations you will have.
The 6.5 Grendel chamber was designed from the start to work reliably with harsh conditions and steel case ammo, while providing accuracy with a wide range of bullets, whereas the tighter neck (.295") .264 LBC-AR is focused on accuracy with high quality brass cased ammo. We have seen several instances where the tighter chamber neck starts to encounter malfunctions with the Wolf steel case, as well as when suppressed.
Maybe Les is talking about the increased chamber fouling when shooting suppressed, as well as the system not being designed to run with overpressure from suppressed use.
You can get away without modifying the existing barrel and gas block by using an adjustable carrier or gas key.
I know Les Baer has spent a lot of effort tuning the overall system to be extremely accurate, while being reliable with quality US brass-cased factory ammunition.
As far as timing goes, the RLGS 20" barreled guns are more forgiving than say an 18" MLGS, but when you try to unlock the bolt under pressure, the torsion on the lugs and the extractor become more of an issue.
Les Baer says his ar15 Grendel cannot handle a suppressor? - Asahi1234 - 07-03-2017
Les Baer offered 6.5 Grendel long before he developed the 264 calibre. I heard Les and Alexander Arms had a parting of ways. Don't know why. Then later Les came out with the 264. I have had my Les Baer 6.5 Grendel since new for about 5 years. Shouts 1/4 inch groups at 100yards. I will add a adjustable gal block before I use the suppressor.
Les Baer says his ar15 Grendel cannot handle a suppressor? - LRRPF52 - 07-05-2017
I asked Bill A. about it. There was no indication that they had a parting of ways, but I think Les Baer didn't want to continue to license reamers at the time.
I do remember the original Les Baer 6.5 Grendel rifles of that time.
Have you thought about using an adjustable carrier or adjustable gas key?
Les Baer says his ar15 Grendel cannot handle a suppressor? - Les - 07-06-2017
This may or may not be relevant but late last year I had a conversation with AA about AGB while running suppressed, I was told they don't recommend using them. Might the AGB have something to do with Mr. Baer's opinion?
Les Baer says his ar15 Grendel cannot handle a suppressor? - Timmy2Knives - 08-18-2017
This is very puzzling to me. Why would an adjustable gas block be a bad thing suppressed? 6.5G is not some special unicorn. Pressure is pressure... Parts don't care what cal you shoot.
If your AGB is tuned correctly any increased pressure should stay behind the pill instead of going to the bolt carrier... are they claiming this relatively modest pressure increase pushing the bullet can somehow damage or increase wear on the barrel, or bolt? Because my logic says this would not occur.
That makes zero sense to me.
Les Baer says his ar15 Grendel cannot handle a suppressor? - Timmy2Knives - 08-18-2017
.... and that is not even considering newer bleed off gas blocks like the Superlative Arms. That AGB has been shown to reduce pressure to the carrier and suppressor. Counterintuitively, the bleed off actually results in quieter shooting suppressed. With a bleeder style AGB in particular, I really don't see why that would void any warranty.
Furthermore... who gives a flying shit about a warranty anyways?? I get the desire to technically understand the issue... I'm with you there. But please, don't worry about it! It's your gun. Modify it however you see fit and use it how you need to. If that means a can, do it.
I really struggle to see how this could result in a broken gun or any issues. Folks have put silencers on all sorts of guns these days. Many with far higher pressures than 6.5G! Be smart, use common sense, you'll be fine.
Les Baer says his ar15 Grendel cannot handle a suppressor? - dega37 - 08-19-2017
Personally, I would take Les Baer's advice if he is one who manufactured your rifle; at least until he tells you why. I had a failure recently which rendered my rifle unserviceable on one of his barrels and extentions with a suppressor. I still don't know how it happened, but I lost my bolt and my barrel will have to be inspected and recut and is still sitting in a box. But i will say this, there is more to extending or reducing the dwell/unlocking time and bcg speed than just the gas block when using a suppressor. On my new barrel I changed my earlier adjustable block with a superlative, and even with the bleed off all the way open and JP's heavy silent capture spring and heaviest spring, my bolt still doesn't fail to eject - however it does feel a lot smoother and I did turn it back a click or two for reliable lock back and feeding. Also I hadn't heard about an adjustable gas key until LR just mentioned it and that is also an interesting idea.
Les Baer says his ar15 Grendel cannot handle a suppressor? - scottg - 08-21-2017
I have a LBC Super varmint 264, 5 years old. I also toyed with this idea. Guess I will use heavier ear plugs.
Les Baer says his ar15 Grendel cannot handle a suppressor? - Asahi1234 - 08-22-2017
I asked Alexander Arms and they said other people have used a suppressor with an adjustable gas blocks with no issue. So i think I will give it a try in the future.
Les Baer says his ar15 Grendel cannot handle a suppressor? - burnsome - 08-24-2017
He has been saying that for a while now. A buddy of mine bought one of his 556 AR's and Les told him not to use a suppressor. I cant recall the reason why but at the time I was thinking it was utter BS.
Les Baer says his ar15 Grendel cannot handle a suppressor? - 454bore - 09-24-2017
Been using my liberty mystic on a BHW 16 inch 264LBC and it shoots sub MOA.
It's my go to suppressed rifle when I'm not shooting the 300BLK.
Haven't had any problems.
Les Baer says his ar15 Grendel cannot handle a suppressor? - saturn - 10-27-2017
I have 3 GEMTECH cans. The biggest one "The One", works on everything up to 300 WinMag. Have run it on an AUG, 308 DPMS, 300 SAUM DPMS, R15, 7.62x39 AR, 300 BO AR, 300 winmag R1, Kimber 6.5 CM, LWRC 223 (piston) ---- it just works, no adjusting anything. Can't imagine anything unique about a LB Grendel. IMHO it's CYA or "not invented here" at work. My AA Grendel upper arrives soon and will get this can strapped on immediately. Somehow I think it will work just fine.
Les Baer says his ar15 Grendel cannot handle a suppressor? - johnhefley - 11-11-2017
My take, having spoken with Les a time or two: Les doesn't want you dicking around with his guns. They're perfect the way he made them.
Frankly, I don't blame him. These are premium AR's, and his actual NAME is on them. Just one man's opinion...
jh
Les Baer says his ar15 Grendel cannot handle a suppressor? - Klem - 11-12-2017
johnhefley Wrote:My take, having spoken with Les a time or two: Les doesn't want you dicking around with his guns. They're perfect the way he made them.
Frankly, I don't blame him. These are premium AR's, and his actual NAME is on them. Just one man's opinion...
jh
I've come across this attitude before in the firearms industry. The gun is LB's only until he's paid in full, then it becomes the exclusive property of the customer. Personally I detest brand owners putting their monikers on parts and then thinking brand equity remains with the gun once sold. Just put the suppressor on the gun and enjoy.
Les Baer says his ar15 Grendel cannot handle a suppressor? - Timmy2Knives - 12-22-2017
Agree. I am all for pride in one's product, but there are reasonable limits. After I purchase, the product is mine. To use as I need or see fit. If I ask the maker a technical question based on my specific intended use, I expect a reasonable answer on a technical basis. This is simply stupid pride and a bit of CYA from a guy that intentionally circumvented Adams licensing! Really rubs me the wrong way and I won't buy any of this stuff having heard this is his mindset. Anyone is free to buy whatever they want with their dollars.