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6.5Grendel vs 5.56NATO as General Purpose AR15 Chambering - roo_ster - 10-03-2018
Howdy:
How does the 6.5Grendel compare to the 5.56NATO as a general-purpose AR15 cartridge?
I am going to pull the trigger on an Alexander Arms upper this week, in anticipation of a hunt with my daughter around Easter 2019. Lightweight, 16" bbl, 6.5G.
https://www.shopalexanderarms.com/Uppers-6_5_Grendel_Incursion_Complete_Upper_Assembly.html
Purpose is as a hunting arm for medium sized game (hogs, deer, etc) for my rather small wife & daughter. The AR platform + 6.5G looks about ideal for this application.
Since I have not one, but four lonely AR15 lowers at the house, I was thinking of building the next upper from parts as a general purpose carbine. Default cartridge in my mind was 5.56NATO. Then I notice that there is not only quality & pricey hunting & match 6.5G ammo, but cheap Wolf ammo available for things like 2/3-gun, carbine classes, introducing new shooters to centerfire rifles, and whatnot without having to mortgage the house.
So have any of y'all built/used 6.5G carbines as general knockabout guns or is 6.5G in an AR15 not well-suited to such pedestrian use?
6.5Grendel vs 5.56NATO as General Purpose AR15 Chambering - Popeye212 - 10-03-2018
In my opinion the Grendel is superior to the .223 for hogs and deer. Recoil would not be an issue I can'' tell the difference in the Grendel vs my M&P Sport. That said the Grrr has a muzzle brake. The Grendel is much more versatile than the .223. and more effective as a medium game hunting round.
6.5Grendel vs 5.56NATO as General Purpose AR15 Chambering - A5BLASTER - 10-03-2018
The grendel is all I use now for any hunting I could or would feel the need to do and home/self defense.
I still have my other rifles just don't shoot them anymore.
6.5Grendel vs 5.56NATO as General Purpose AR15 Chambering - Bigs28 - 10-03-2018
If your willing to shoot steel case, their is no reason to own a 556 imo. If your not willing to shoot steel case then a 556 is good for trigger time since the brass cased ammo is less. I always order my ammo online since it's cheaper so availability on a shelf isn't important to me.
6.5Grendel vs 5.56NATO as General Purpose AR15 Chambering - VASCAR2 - 10-04-2018
Hard to beat the versatility of the 6.5 Grendel but it will generally be slower on a shot timer compared to 5.56/223. In real world I think the difference putting rounds on target is insignificant between 6.5 Grendel and 5.56/223. The ability of the individual user is more significant to me than the advantage in faster recovery time of the 5.56/223.
The ability to carry more ammo and ease of use will keep the 5.56/223 more popular. For most any civilian use the difference in weight and number of cartridges (6.5G vs 5.56) carried is not as important as it is for the mil. I really appreciate the advantage of the high ballistic coefficient bullets with more mass with 6.5/264 bullets.
One disadvantage of the 6.5 Grendel firearms is they tend to multiply. You hang around on this forum very long and you’re liable to come down with the affliction.
6.5Grendel vs 5.56NATO as General Purpose AR15 Chambering - Klem - 10-04-2018
The Grendel is like a 223 on steroids.
6.5Grendel vs 5.56NATO as General Purpose AR15 Chambering - murfvol - 10-04-2018
Good call. I'm taking some first time shooters to the range this evening. They'll have fun hitting 2 liters with cheap Wolf ammo out of an AA upper.
If they figure things put quickly they can blast clays on the 200 and 275 yards berms. Then I'll make sure the SSTs are zeroed for an upcoming hog hunt.
6.5Grendel vs 5.56NATO as General Purpose AR15 Chambering - roo_ster - 10-04-2018
I guess I should have put this in the general forum, but heck, y'all are all over it like ducks on a June bug, so no matter.
Thank you all for commenting.
Popeye212
Good to hear regarding subjective recoil.
A5BLASTER
Roger that.
Bigs28
I have shot plenty of steel case though my pistols without mishap. Wolf 230gr .45ACP is more accurate in my 1911 than Winchester white box and no dirtier. And 6.5G steel case from Wolf is supposed to have Alexander's blessing, so if the need is for high volume at shorter range, I think it will do. I order plenty of ammo online, too.
VASCAR2
I shot plenty of 5.56NATO in the service years back, but my skills are such that when I have competed in gun games, equipment is WAY down on the list of items that impact my performance. Like I need another platform that breeds in the gun closet. I already have multiple Rem 870s for different uses. I just don't think I could stomach any 12ga 870 / 6.5G AR15 hybrids. A man's got to know his limitations.
Klem
Huh. Looking at the data, 6.5G does not seem to sacrifice useful range like 6.8SPC or the .45/.50 cal AR15 chamberings seem to. Downsides are heavier ammunition and somewhat lesser capacity, in addition to decreased availability of ammo.
mufvol
Exactly the sort of thing I was getting at for a general purpose rifle.
6.5Grendel vs 5.56NATO as General Purpose AR15 Chambering - stanc - 10-04-2018
VASCAR2 Wrote:Hard to beat the versatility of the 6.5 Grendel but it will generally be slower on a shot timer compared to 5.56/223.Yup. Examples (starring LRRPF52
).5.56 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK2Y1hiUAPQ
6.5G - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qApXp7sH9QQ
6.5Grendel vs 5.56NATO as General Purpose AR15 Chambering - Texas - 10-04-2018
I don't remember the last time I shot one of my 5.56 ARs. The Grendel has taken over for the other AR15s and AR10s. BTW, I have AR15s in 300 Blackout, 5.56 mm, 25/45 Sharps, and 6.5 Grendel. The Grendel is my choice for a pickup gun.
6.5Grendel vs 5.56NATO as General Purpose AR15 Chambering - roo_ster - 10-05-2018
Texas Wrote:I don't remember the last time I shot one of my 5.56 ARs. The Grendel has taken over for the other AR15s and AR10s. BTW, I have AR15s in 300 Blackout, 5.56 mm, 25/45 Sharps, and 6.5 Grendel. The Grendel is my choice for a pickup gun.
That sounds pretty general-purpose-ish.
When you write "pckup gun" do you mean as "the long gun you keep in your pickup" or as "the gun I usually pick up for a rifle task?"
Had to look up .25-45 Sharps. Was expecting some BPCR rimmed deal out of an AR15. A freakish hybrid featuring Yosemite Sam meets Eugene Stoner. Not so much it seems. Yep, the .25cal just does not seem to have the performance envelope, especially on the upside (mass & range), of 6.5/.26cal cartridge variants.
6.5Grendel vs 5.56NATO as General Purpose AR15 Chambering - roo_ster - 10-05-2018
OK, I have been Grendel-ized.
AA says it will take a week:
https://www.shopalexanderarms.com/Uppers-6_5_Grendel_Incursion_Complete_Upper_Assembly.html
Son and I will build two lowers from PSA parts kits in parallel, then I'll do milspec trigger jobs on them like I did in the service.
Sights will consist of one of my floating Leupold 2-7x33 scopes as primary and one of those Bushnell TRS-25 red dots as an off-rifle backup. The hunting-oriented Leupold scopes are lighter than the tactical/patrol scopes. Two-point sling and a Streamlight TLR-1 Gamespotter light to finish it off.
In addition to the Wolf cheap stuff, will see how other ammo groups, in order of priority:
1. Hornady 123gr SST
2. Federal 120gr Fusion
3. Hornady 123gr ELD
4. Precision Firearms 100gr Barnes TTSX
5. AA 120gr Barnes TSX
6.5Grendel vs 5.56NATO as General Purpose AR15 Chambering - Bigs28 - 10-05-2018
Nice roo_ster. The 2-7x will be nice. My buddy runs one and i use a 1-8x.
6.5Grendel vs 5.56NATO as General Purpose AR15 Chambering - LRRPF52 - 10-09-2018
When I first got into 6.5 Grendel, I was still shooting a ton of 5.56 and .260 Rem for LR. Grendel was just an experiment initially for me, and I was pretty underwhelmed with the muzzle velocities I was seeing from my first 16" build.
I came here to the forum and sought advice on load data from guys like LR1955, JASmith, and some others who were on the old forum. Tried that advice and saw that it would do 2675fps with 100gr NBT before hitting max loads listed by Hodgdon. Then Hornady 123gr AMAX started hitting the shelves, and I was really impressed with the long range potential of that factory load. It started growing on me more, and I shot my .260 Rem less and less.
Now I have a bunch of them ranging from 22" bolt gun and 22" Lilja barreled AR15, down to 12" pistol with PDW brace.
I rarely shoot anything 5.56 anymore, with the exceptions of Close Quarters Marksmanship courses that I run, and always take Grendel when doing rifle work.
If 6.5 Grendel had been around in 1955 or 1957, Stoner would have been all over it I think.
6.5Grendel vs 5.56NATO as General Purpose AR15 Chambering - roo_ster - 10-09-2018
LRRPF52:
Thanks for the input. That is a wide spread of utility.
For my own part, if I want more velocity & mass of the 6.5mm flavor, I always have my 6.5Swede in a buttery Mauser action. The 140gr pills are nice and successful use of the 160gr RNSP at moderate velocities is part of what kept me from being concerned with 6.5G's moderate velocities (relative to 5.56, .260Rem, 6.5Creed). A correctly-constructed bullet in the 2400fps MV neighborhood will do the trick just fine. I also suspect 6.5G won't soon replace my .375H&H, another Mauser actioned favorite of mine. But smaller family members can not manage such rifles. If I want them to go hunting with me, I have to give them the right tools suited to both the job and the user.
6.5Grendel vs 5.56NATO as General Purpose AR15 Chambering - stanc - 10-09-2018
LRRPF52 Wrote:If 6.5 Grendel had been around in 1955 or 1957, Stoner would have been all over it I think.I can't imagine why. The 6.5 Grendel would not have been acceptable to those in the Army who wanted to stick with a full-power, .30-caliber cartridge, or to the SCHV proponents, who wanted to switch to a high-velocity, .22-caliber round.
6.5Grendel vs 5.56NATO as General Purpose AR15 Chambering - JASmith - 10-09-2018
Stans point is well taken
The mindset of the day would have made the Grendel have a 70-80 grain bullet and 14-twist barrel.
What we know today as the Grendel would likely not have happened.
6.5Grendel vs 5.56NATO as General Purpose AR15 Chambering - Squiddley - 10-09-2018
Larue has triggers on sale right now for 75.00,I need to order a few.
6.5Grendel vs 5.56NATO as General Purpose AR15 Chambering - LRRPF52 - 10-11-2018
stanc Wrote:I can't imagine why. The 6.5 Grendel would not have been acceptable to those in the Army who wanted to stick with a full-power, .30-caliber cartridge, or to the SCHV proponents, who wanted to switch to a high-velocity, .22-caliber round.
From a pure performance perspective, I think the combination would have sold itself all day long for him, Jim Sullivan, and Bob Fremont.
Brits would have liked it too.
I still like the magazine capacity of 5.56 NATO and compact magazine profile, but 25-28rd magazines that fit in the same profile with the improvements in retained energy start to tip the scales away from 5.56 NATO for an improved performance infantry cartridge.
6.5Grendel vs 5.56NATO as General Purpose AR15 Chambering - stanc - 10-11-2018
LRRPF52 Wrote:From a pure performance perspective, I think the combination would have sold itself all day long for him, Jim Sullivan, and Bob Fremont.Perhaps. However, they developed the AR10 and AR15 to meet military requirements. Since 6.5 Grendel is neither a .30 caliber, full-power cartridge, nor a small caliber, high-velocity round, it would not have met the military requirements for either the AR10 or AR15, I just don't see those guys investing time and $$$ into developing a 6.5 G rifle.
LRRPF52 Wrote:Brits would have liked it too.Yeah, I think they might have. The 6.5 Grendel looks almost like a scaled-down .280 British, and both rounds shared the same design philosophy.
LRRPF52 Wrote:I still like the magazine capacity of 5.56 NATO and compact magazine profile, but 25-28rd magazines that fit in the same profile with the improvements in retained energy start to tip the scales away from 5.56 NATO for an improved performance infantry cartridge.I agree that 6.5 Grendel has interesting potential for infantry weapons, but who makes 28-rd 6.5 Grendel mags of the same size as 30-rd 5.56 NATO mags?