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Want to work up to 1000yd...need build advice on the reasonable for the rifle - Printable Version

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Want to work up to 1000yd...need build advice on the reasonable for the rifle - bob4432 - 10-09-2018

This was written on a phone, so if things seem off, you gotta love auto-correct...

Haven't shot in a bit due to just life stuff, but I need to get back to the range. Was thinking 100, 200, 600 & then 1000.

Can this be accomplished by a 16" brl, say BA Hanson style, AA, Faxon or these GREEN Mountain Barrels? Would like to stay as short as possible, obviously past SBR land.

Also, what do I need optics wise? I have heard plain 10x is g2g while others say variable ~5-20x is where it is at. I am in Phx, AZ so don't think any illumination of anything would be necessary, but please correct me if I am wrong.

Where I am at shooting wise ATM, hitting paper @ 600 (rusty) would make me a happy camper as I learn to read the wind, etc, then refine and shrink the groups.

Or, am I asking just too much from too little (both in length & quality).

There is A LOT if info out there that contradicts each other and I don't want to waste $$
FWIW, I plan on running a AGB, quality, lightweight internals, etc.

I want to start to reload but sneaking the ~$1000 by the Boss won't be easy...in the meann time will be shooting Hornady Match (as little as possible as I would like to stock up on Papua Brass) - also what about annealing after how many shots/brass? (And have a friend could probably machine me me a billet unit in either 6061 or 7075 to the .001 or even to the .0001 if necessary).

Please educate me.

So far, I have both BCM & Aero Precision uppers, plan on squaring those up - can the barrel extension to upper fit be 2 tight that it distorts the upper because with just a qpq extension, the BCM is very tight - can a upper to extension be so thight it distorts the upper itself thus throwing the whole upper out the window?

LaRue Target Trigger (these will be going in everything Smile)

Have a 13" V1 rail I am going to get rid if to pick up a V2. Is the upper to lower fit extremely important? If so I may ask a 80% lower / 100% non- anodized seller to hand select me a few pairs that are very tight.

Also, FWIW, I have certain reasons for going as small & lite as possible. Also, when I say 1000 I mean 1000, not 1150 or 1200. My elevation is ~1400' and at shooting time 40% or less humudity (if that matters). Also, can you tell me what weather parts matter

Thanks in advance,
Bob

Want to work up to 1000yd...need build advice on the reasonable for the rifle - Sticks - 10-09-2018

16" is more than capable of 1k shots, providing you are at an altitude that keeps it supersonic to 1200 (stay away from the transonic zone).

Your best bet is the Larue Ultimate Upper then a lower with a decent trigger for that price range. But then you have an optic to find.

In reality, the quality that you will need to consistently work at the long ranges will be hard with that 1k budget, but not impossible. Past 400 is where you are going to be the determining factor.

Paruse the member buy/sell/trade section for some used items to save some coin. IIRC there was a couple good barrels, optics and triggers available.

Want to work up to 1000yd...need build advice on the reasonable for the rifle - A5BLASTER - 10-09-2018

Don't know what altitude your at but for me at 350 asl a 16 inch can't make it to 1000 with factory ammo maybe a handload set up for max speed but it would still be tuff here.

I would go with a 20 inch and go for a barrel budget of 400 min.

Glass- Well I need all the glass I can get so I vote for 20 being min top end power and like 30 for getting to 1000 yards.

I'm useing a Athlon argos right now and it has steadily impressed me.

Hope this helps sir.

Want to work up to 1000yd...need build advice on the reasonable for the rifle - bob4432 - 10-09-2018

Thanks for the info, I am about 1300 asl.

Want to work up to 1000yd...need build advice on the reasonable for the rifle - Bigs28 - 10-09-2018

Your money will go further around black Friday if you can wait 5 weeks.

Want to work up to 1000yd...need build advice on the reasonable for the rifle - Gusmeister - 10-09-2018

I shoot at lot out to 1,000 yards here in PA. The 1,000 yard range has a altitude of 600 feet. What the Grendel is capable of at 6,000 ft altitude is all together different and more than at 600 ft. So I'll give you the PA answer and somebody else can give you the WY answer.

IME the 6.5 Grendel is an 800 yard cartridge with a 20-24" barrel. Especially winter (thicker air). It can be stretched out further (and tons of fun) but it is not a 1,000 yard cartridge in the sense a 6.5 Creedmoor is. The more you shorten the barrel the more shorten the effective range on the cartridge. Nothing wrong here. Just no free lunches. I opted for a 20" Odin Works barrel. I find it a little too long for hog hunting and a little too short for long range shooting. In other words, it's just right for me. All I can really say is get a good barrel with a good reputation and a company with very good customer service. I am not a target shooter so anything better than 1 MOA is largely lost on me in the real world.

I know it is a broken record but get the best scope you possibly can. Good glass is way more important than the scopes magnification. I mostly shoot alone so seeing where the shot landed is really important. MY 3X15 Burris XTR II 34mm tube scope has proven to be excellent. A borrowed Nightforce 5X25 proved to be even better. But it's still more about the glass than the Magnification. Last week a friend and I were shooting at and occasionally hitting clay pigeons on a dirt bank at 1,028 yards. 15X is quite enough for this if the glass is clear. Most of the reason I need more than 10X is to be able to see bullet hits/misses. 15X to 25X seems a practical top magnification here in PA. There are tons of good scopes out there. Most 30mm tube scopes will not allow for enough internal elevation to even get you to 1,000 yards without some help.

Naturally I have no idea what is best for you. But this forum is encyclopedic for knowledge in all things Grendel. Pick what makes sense to you and please share your experiences.

Want to work up to 1000yd...need build advice on the reasonable for the rifle - Triticum - 10-09-2018

I recently built up a 6.5G specifically for shooting at 1,000 yards. I'm using a 22" Criterion barrel and a fixed 16x SWFA SS scope. I could not be happier with the combination, especially considering how both are very reasonably priced. I've been able to hit milk jugs at 1,000 yards without too much trouble. I'm at about 2400 ASL elevation.

I'm shooting 123 gr ELD-M bullets at 2500 FPS. Based on the ballistics calculators I'm just barely staying over the speed of sound at 1,000 yards. I don't know if you are going to be able to do what you want with shorter than a 20" barrel.

Want to work up to 1000yd...need build advice on the reasonable for the rifle - biodsl - 10-10-2018

Gusmeister Wrote:I shoot at lot out to 1,000 yards here in PA. The 1,000 yard range has a altitude of 600 feet. What the Grendel is capable of at 6,000 ft altitude is all together different and more than at 600 ft. So I'll give you the PA answer and somebody else can give you the WY answer.

And there you have it. Great reply, Gusmeister. A ballistic calculator tells the tale.

Want to work up to 1000yd...need build advice on the reasonable for the rifle - bob4432 - 10-10-2018

After messing with Hornady's Ballistic Calculator and Google Earth (for altitude), turns out I am not going stay supersonic or even close to 1000yd, maybe 800. The ranges where I will be shooting are about 300-500' higher than where I live, and when you add realistic air variables (less barometric pressure, need to read how that plays in), I think I was ~800fps @ 1000yd. So my plan is to step build - build a 600-800yd Grendel, still wanting to stay with a 16" barrel (I really like the size) and then when I become proficient at which I am supersonic at, move up to a 6.5Creedmoor. Figure it is the most cost effective way to get to 1000-1200yd being I would buy the optic for 1200yd or so, and on the reloading size, I can cross-pollinate bullets and primers, using Lapua Small Rifle 6.5Creedmoor brass. Trying to do this as cost effective as possible. I also have to remember that in the summer in Phx, AZ, we will stay no lower than 90F+ 24/7, so some people have a 'No Shooting in the winter, here it is limited shooting in the summer, as soon as the range opens".

Now, that I am going down 2-400yds, would a Faxon, BA Hanson or Green Mountain Barrel be adequate? Thanks all for the input and giving real world realities.

Want to work up to 1000yd...need build advice on the reasonable for the rifle - grayfox - 10-10-2018

I've got a BA in both 20" and in 12.5, they are absolutely super. Smooth, getting good MV's, etc etc. Still breaking them in.
My 16" faxon I like also, it's a solid good rig. the BA barrels are probly a bit better.
Green mtn has a good rep and BFT runs some good deals.

Want to work up to 1000yd...need build advice on the reasonable for the rifle - A5BLASTER - 10-10-2018

bob4432 Wrote:After messing with Hornady's Ballistic Calculator and Google Earth (for altitude), turns out I am not going stay supersonic or even close to 1000yd, maybe 800. The ranges where I will be shooting are about 300-500' higher than where I live, and when you add realistic air variables (less barometric pressure, need to read how that plays in), I think I was ~800fps @ 1000yd. So my plan is to step build - build a 600-800yd Grendel, still wanting to stay with a 16" barrel (I really like the size) and then when I become proficient at which I am supersonic at, move up to a 6.5Creedmoor. Figure it is the most cost effective way to get to 1000-1200yd being I would buy the optic for 1200yd or so, and on the reloading size, I can cross-pollinate bullets and primers, using Lapua Small Rifle 6.5Creedmoor brass. Trying to do this as cost effective as possible. I also have to remember that in the summer in Phx, AZ, we will stay no lower than 90F+ 24/7, so some people have a 'No Shooting in the winter, here it is limited shooting in the summer, as soon as the range opens".

Now, that I am going down 2-400yds, would a Faxon, BA Hanson or Green Mountain Barrel be adequate? Thanks all for the input and giving real world realities.

After reading your numbers, I jumped on my sterlok pro app and ran my chron data for the eld-m factory ammo out of my 16 inch aa barrel and at 1000 yards at 351 asl where I live it shows just over 1100fps, in fact it shows it hit 1000 yards at 1191.1 fps.

That's to close for me so I will only use my 20 at 1000 yards but just wanted to show what sterlok gives me with my data from a 16 inch at just above 350 altitude.

I think you might have entered something wrong when you ran the numbers.

I'm going to grab my notes and double check my data but that's what sterlok is giving me.

Edit to add.

Double checked my data everything is correct.
AA 16 inch
Hornady eld-m average muzzle velocity is 2494
Altitude 351 asl

1000 yards -1190.1 fps

Still a bit to close to for my liking but it seems possible to hit 1000 yards with a good handload you might reach it 1000 yards with 1200 fps.

Want to work up to 1000yd...need build advice on the reasonable for the rifle - bob4432 - 10-10-2018

I appreciate you doing that, thanks. Since it is just past midnight I will plug in the numbers again in the next couple days and post a screen shot since I am ~1670-1690 alt. Also will look up "supersonic" @ that altitude (assuming it works that way?). Since I will be punching paper, I don't have to worry about energy to take down an animal.

Want to work up to 1000yd...need build advice on the reasonable for the rifle - Sticks - 10-10-2018

It's getting a velocity that your barrel may shoot. A5BLASTER's results are not typical. His 16" is faster than my 18 Bartlien, and 20" Howa bolt actions.

I would go with a 2375 to 2400 fps for 123 ELD and a .255 G7

Quick and dirty numbers with 2400fps, and 27.5 station pressure shows 1105fps at 1k. Right there at the max.

You need more speed. 18" minimum if you want to play at 1k with factory ammo. You might get lucky and get something in a handload to run faster, but that is the unicorn we are all chasing without exceeding SAMMI Specs on pressure.

Want to work up to 1000yd...need build advice on the reasonable for the rifle - LR1955 - 10-10-2018

bob4432 Wrote:After messing with Hornady's Ballistic Calculator and Google Earth (for altitude), turns out I am not going stay supersonic or even close to 1000yd, maybe 800. The ranges where I will be shooting are about 300-500' higher than where I live, and when you add realistic air variables (less barometric pressure, need to read how that plays in), I think I was ~800fps @ 1000yd. So my plan is to step build - build a 600-800yd Grendel, still wanting to stay with a 16" barrel (I really like the size) and then when I become proficient at which I am supersonic at, move up to a 6.5Creedmoor. Figure it is the most cost effective way to get to 1000-1200yd being I would buy the optic for 1200yd or so, and on the reloading size, I can cross-pollinate bullets and primers, using Lapua Small Rifle 6.5Creedmoor brass. Trying to do this as cost effective as possible. I also have to remember that in the summer in Phx, AZ, we will stay no lower than 90F+ 24/7, so some people have a 'No Shooting in the winter, here it is limited shooting in the summer, as soon as the range opens".

Now, that I am going down 2-400yds, would a Faxon, BA Hanson or Green Mountain Barrel be adequate? Thanks all for the input and giving real world realities.

Bob:

Depends on the target size. If you are shooting a five minute target, I am sure going cheap on a barrel will be just fine. If you expect to hold under two minutes all of the time (given you are one of those two minutes), you need to buy a top end barrel, a top end sighting system and a top end trigger.

If you are serious about long range shooting (600 and beyond), get a 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 X 47 Lapua, or one of the 6mm variants of each cartridge.

LR55

Want to work up to 1000yd...need build advice on the reasonable for the rifle - grayfox - 10-10-2018

My 20" howa, with a hi-BC like 129 ABLR, will stay to about 1250 at 1000, 328 elev... 2450 ft/sec MV
whereas the Eld's in the howa are about 1150... 2510 ft/s, definitely trans-sonic.
according to my strelok.

With 16" I couldn't get there, maybe 1100 or so w/ Eld's.

A5 you got a speed demon for that 16er, hang on to it.

Want to work up to 1000yd...need build advice on the reasonable for the rifle - A5BLASTER - 10-10-2018

grayfox Wrote:My 20" howa, with a hi-BC like 129 ABLR, will stay to about 1250 at 1000, 328 elev... 2450 ft/sec MV
whereas the Eld's in the howa are about 1150... 2510 ft/s, definitely trans-sonic.
according to my strelok.

With 16" I couldn't get there, maybe 1100 or so w/ Eld's.

A5 you got a speed demon for that 16er, hang on to it.

Thank you sir.

At first I thought it was I didn't have the Caldwell set up correctly but we tested some loads in the range owners rifle and it was within 5fps of where his loads are known to be.

My GB green mountain barrel seems to have good speed as well it shots the same factory eld-m ammo at 2592 average fps.

I had never entered the info for my 16 in to 1000 yards before because I felt it wasn't enough and it really isnt not at my altitude but decided to see what it said. When the OP said his number was around 800fps, I know that didn't sound right.

I don't plan on trying my 16 out to 1000 but was more curious what the numbers were compared to what the OP had gotten.

Want to work up to 1000yd...need build advice on the reasonable for the rifle - grayfox - 10-10-2018

yeah... besides, the scopes I've got on my Grrrs won't stretch to 1000, I didn't expect them to. I have a couple creedmoors and 2-30mm scopes that can go there, all of which is fine w/ me.

Want to work up to 1000yd...need build advice on the reasonable for the rifle - Gusmeister - 10-11-2018

You know, as suggested there is another way to look at solving your problem. First, get your 16" AR rifle. Use it, develop it and learn it's abilities. But unless you absolutely need to go to a Creedmoor, consider staying with the AR 15 platform and getting another 6.5 Grendel upper with a 24-28" barrel. It will save you a lot of money and you'll still be crowding the 1,000 yard mark. The Grendel is easy to shoot, friendly to load for and comparatively easy on barrels.

Anyway... just food for thought

Want to work up to 1000yd...need build advice on the reasonable for the rifle - Klem - 10-11-2018

Bob,

My 2-cents worth...Get a caliber designed for 1,000-yard work. The Grendel is a short-medium range calibre.

The boiler room of the Grendel is too small to get the velocity needed to go that far, and buck the wind while you're at it. To eek out the ability to reach 1,000 shooters are buying long barrels which on an AR15 is almost weird. The receiver is light and the handguard usually circular that doesn't help steady the gun or help it track on the bench. With all of those handicaps it is just a poor excuse for a long range rifle. BUT, it is an efficient calibre and it shines at closer ranges, especially relative to other AR calibres.

I use a 6.5*47 bolt gun for serious long range shooting and have never shot the Grendel beyond 650M. One day I'll do it for giggles but I know what the bullet will be doing as it slows down. Even on a calm day the groups will be larger than the 6.5*47.

Want to work up to 1000yd...need build advice on the reasonable for the rifle - LRRPF52 - 10-11-2018

Klem Wrote:Bob,

My 2-cents worth...Get a caliber designed for 1,000-yard work. The Grendel is a short-medium range calibre.

The boiler room of the Grendel is too small to get the velocity needed to go that far, and buck the wind while you're at it. To eek out the ability to reach 1,000 shooters are buying long barrels which on an AR15 is almost weird. The receiver is light and the handguard usually circular that doesn't help steady the gun or help it track on the bench. With all of those handicaps it is just a poor excuse for a long range rifle. BUT, it is an efficient calibre and it shines at closer ranges, especially relative to other AR calibres.

I use a 6.5*47 bolt gun for serious long range shooting and have never shot the Grendel beyond 650M. One day I'll do it for giggles but I know what the bullet will be doing as it slows down. Even on a calm day the groups will be larger than the 6.5*47.

This is where I was at before I tried shooting my 16" Grendel out to 1200yds on a dare. I only considered my .260 Rem to be a true long-range cartridge, and looked at the Grendel more as a play thing that would reach 700yds no problem, but to let the bigger boys do the heavy lifting.

I was astonished how easy my hits were at 1200yds with the 16", granted I was at 4400ft with 80˚F temp, 123gr A-AMX factory load.

Switch to 123gr SMK or 123gr Scenar with .260/.263 G7, whereas 123gr ELD-M is in the .230-.245 region.

Even from my 17.6" Lilja barrel at 1000yds, I rapid-fired 6 rounds into 8" vertical, 4" horizontal with the 123gr A-MAX, which doesn't have anywhere near the boat tail length of the SMK or Scenar. This was at 6600ft elevation, so that played a big role in supersonic range.

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