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2nd Amendment "rules" should apply to the 14th Amendment - Mopardoctor - 08-05-2019
With all of the loopholes and legal games the liberals have invented to mess up our 2nd Amendment rights I think these legal games should apply also to the 14th Amendment, the right to vote.
1. A voter registration card MAY be issued after a free background check.
2. Before you vote you must apply at least 10 days before you vote for a voting permit and another background check. A voting permit then MAY be issued.
3. Your vote cannot be counted until 10 days after you voted so your ballot can be examined or protested.
4 Anyone can file a complaint with the courts without proof that you are not mentally fit to vote or a dangerous person and have your voting rights suspended.
Mopar Doctor
2nd Amendment "rules" should apply to the 14th Amendment - Double Naught Spy - 08-05-2019
Right, because we need government to enact more crazy laws. That will put things in balance and harmony.
Remember it was a Conservative named Reagan that signed FOPA.
Trump was quick to ban bump stocks.
It isn't just the liberal we have to fear.
2nd Amendment "rules" should apply to the 14th Amendment - stanc - 08-06-2019
Double Naught Spy Wrote:Right, because we need government to enact more crazy laws. That will put things in balance and harmony.Yup. And now Trump is calling for "red flag" laws.
Remember it was a Conservative named Reagan that signed FOPA.
Trump was quick to ban bump stocks.
It isn't just the liberal we have to fear.
[video=youtube;V1FicXIZL40]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1FicXIZL40[/video]
2nd Amendment "rules" should apply to the 14th Amendment - montana - 08-06-2019
You forgot Bush banned the import of semi automatic rifles in March 1989, and made the ban permanent in July 1989. Republicans have stabbed the gun owner in the back many times, "but for the record" the machine gun ban was an amendment added to an otherwise pro gun bill by a democrat using a voice count. Hillary campaigned by supporting the Australian gun confiscation and every democrat running for POTUS in 2020 openly supports extreme gun control and semi automatic bans. Un-like many Republicans, name one democrat today that openly supports semi auto rifles and pro gun rights organizations......yup, there are none. Yes, we have to be vigilant about back stabbing false conservatives, but pretending the left is no more of a threat to the 2ndA than conservatives is laughable.
2nd Amendment "rules" should apply to the 14th Amendment - LR1955 - 08-06-2019
stanc Wrote:Yup. And now Trump is calling for "red flag" laws.
[video=youtube;V1FicXIZL40]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1FicXIZL40[/video]
Yep.
And I agree. If a nut job goes on Face Book screeching and screaming how much he wants to kill people, maybe he ought to be looked at a bit closer by the authorities?
If he is found to be a nut job, he or she shouldn't be sold a firearm, allowed to vote, or given a drivers license. And possibly institutionalized.
Compare what Trump said to what the leftists want. We get to keep our firearms and even buy new ones with Trump. With the leftists, we get all of our firearms confiscated -- period.
LR55
2nd Amendment "rules" should apply to the 14th Amendment - montana - 08-06-2019
LR1955 Wrote:Yep.
And I agree. If a nut job goes on Face Book screeching and screaming how much he wants to kill people, maybe he ought to be looked at a bit closer by the authorities?
If he is found to be a nut job, he or she shouldn't be sold a firearm, allowed to vote, or given a drivers license. And possibly institutionalized.
Compare what Trump said to what the leftists want. We get to keep our firearms and even buy new ones with Trump. With the leftists, we get all of our firearms confiscated -- period.
LR55
+1 Succinctly put and true.
2nd Amendment "rules" should apply to the 14th Amendment - Double Naught Spy - 08-06-2019
montana Wrote:You forgot Bush banned the import of semi automatic rifles in March 1989, and made the ban permanent in July 1989. Republicans have stabbed the gun owner in the back many times, "but for the record" the machine gun ban was an amendment added to an otherwise pro gun bill by a democrat using a voice count. Hillary campaigned by supporting the Australian gun confiscation and every democrat running for POTUS in 2020 openly supports extreme gun control and semi automatic bans. Un-like many Republicans, name one democrat today that openly supports semi auto rifles and pro gun rights organizations......yup, there are none. Yes, we have to be vigilant about back stabbing false conservatives, but pretending the left is no more of a threat to the 2ndA than conservatives is laughable.
RIGHT, so this isn't just a 'liberal' issue at all. Conservative politicians tend to be more gun friendly, but kind of like some bears are more friendly than others, until they aren't.
2nd Amendment "rules" should apply to the 14th Amendment - montana - 08-06-2019
Double Naught Spy Wrote:RIGHT, so this isn't just a 'liberal' issue at all. Conservative politicians tend to be more gun friendly, but kind of like some bears are more friendly than others, until they aren't.
Politicians have been trying to chip away at the 2ndA for a long time. Historically, it has been the Republicans, "by a vast majority" that have been the best defenders of the 2ndA. The left has always been much more hostile toward the 2ndA, but recently they have declared all out war on it. Did you not watch the democratic presidential candidates debate??? Like I asked before, name one democrat today who openly supports semi automatic rifles and pro gun organizations. Lumping both parties as similar anti-gun pundits is being ridiculous and dis-honest.
2nd Amendment "rules" should apply to the 14th Amendment - Growler - 08-06-2019
LR1955 Wrote:If he is found to be a nut job, he or she shouldn't be sold a firearm, allowed to vote, or given a drivers license. And possibly institutionalized.
This ^
But in the reverse order. Establish a realistic but workable due process bar for institutionalizing the nut job. If someone has been determined to be a threat to society, they—the individual—should be controlled. The tools available to them aren’t the immediate problem, their intent to do harm with any tool available is. Until a clearly defined standard of treatment progress is accomplished, they should not be in the general population.
Instead of depriving someone of their constitutionally protected freedoms or personal property, involuntary admission to treatment would allow less opportunity for political manipulation by those with an agenda. A cycle of treatment and discharge should not automatically result in permanent loss of any rights, or else that can (and would) be used to deprive many of their rights through the equivalent of a process crime.
2nd Amendment "rules" should apply to the 14th Amendment - TomSawyerNW - 08-06-2019
montana Wrote:You forgot Bush banned the import of semi automatic rifles in March 1989, and made the ban permanent in July 1989. Republicans have stabbed the gun owner in the back many times, "but for the record" the machine gun ban was an amendment added to an otherwise pro gun bill by a democrat using a voice count. Hillary campaigned by supporting the Australian gun confiscation and every democrat running for POTUS in 2020 openly supports extreme gun control and semi automatic bans. Un-like many Republicans, name one democrat today that openly supports semi auto rifles and pro gun rights organizations......yup, there are none. Yes, we have to be vigilant about back stabbing false conservatives, but pretending the left is no more of a threat to the 2ndA than conservatives is laughable.
montana Wrote:Politicians have been trying to chip away at the 2ndA for a long time. Historically, it has been the Republicans, "by a vast majority" that have been the best defenders of the 2ndA. The left has always been much more hostile toward the 2ndA, but recently they have declared all out war on it. Did you not watch the democratic presidential candidates debate??? Like I asked before, name one democrat today who openly supports semi automatic rifles and pro gun organizations. Lumping both parties as similar anti-gun pundits is being ridiculous and dis-honest.
Agree with this! In today's environment, the progressives (I hate that term being applied to today's extremist Democrats, but never mind that) and their obedient leftist media such as CNN, CBS, HuffPost., are in open support of any and all gun regulations and potential confiscation. There is no whispering in the hallways by them on this issue...the Democrats have voluntarily outed and wear it like a in-your-face badge of pride. They present the "Universal Background Check" proposal as if no one goes through a background check today, all nice and tight like ObamaCare was presented, never mind the details and the emulation of regs already in place in states like CA, NJ, NY, CT. There is no relationship between Democrats and Republicans on this issue as a whole.
2nd Amendment "rules" should apply to the 14th Amendment - stanc - 08-06-2019
LR1955 Wrote:Yep. And I agree.Many gun owners do not share your view. They see "red flag" laws as one more infringement on the RKBA, another bite in the constant nibbling away of the 2A.
2nd Amendment "rules" should apply to the 14th Amendment - Kswhitetails - 08-06-2019
I'm one of them, Stan. Red flag laws are dangerous. MUCH more so than any other attempt at banning firearms. A man was already killed by a sheriff while attempting to enter his home and force him to give up his guns, because someone called him in. They had a court order in hand. How do you fight them, then?
No due process, no warning, no representation, until AFTER they confiscate your firearms. That's the very definition of un-constitutional search and seizure in my mind. Oh, to get them back, here's more fun. YOU become responsible to prove yourself innocent to take control of your own property again. This is a silicone encrusted greased slope waiting for the oil to rain and make it more perilous... our freedoms are in danger, and some folks refuse to see it.
And now, the thing that makes me annoyed is that the folks writing these laws want to be able to make the reporter anonymous! How do you face your accuser?
Maybe one thing could lessen the impact: IF the laws drop the anonymous reporter language, and IF the reporter faces jail time and fines stiff enough to make living hard for them if the reportee is found innocent, (you were willing to have us take their freedom, you were wrong, so now we take yours...) then maybe... NO; you've already taken enough.
2nd Amendment "rules" should apply to the 14th Amendment - stanc - 08-06-2019
Well said, ks.
2nd Amendment "rules" should apply to the 14th Amendment - LR1955 - 08-06-2019
Kswhitetails Wrote:I'm one of them, Stan. Red flag laws are dangerous. MUCH more so than any other attempt at banning firearms. A man was already killed by a sheriff while attempting to enter his home and force him to give up his guns, because someone called him in. They had a court order in hand. How do you fight them, then?
No due process, no warning, no representation, until AFTER they confiscate your firearms. That's the very definition of un-constitutional search and seizure in my mind. Oh, to get them back, here's more fun. YOU become responsible to prove yourself innocent to take control of your own property again. This is a silicone encrusted greased slope waiting for the oil to rain and make it more perilous... our freedoms are in danger, and some folks refuse to see it.
And now, the thing that makes me annoyed is that the folks writing these laws want to be able to make the reporter anonymous! How do you face your accuser?
Maybe one thing could lessen the impact: IF the laws drop the anonymous reporter language, and IF the reporter faces jail time and fines stiff enough to make living hard for them if the reportee is found innocent, (you were willing to have us take their freedom, you were wrong, so now we take yours...) then maybe... NO; you've already taken enough.
KS:
Not upset with you but have to ask.
What will you do to stop such legislation?
LR55
2nd Amendment "rules" should apply to the 14th Amendment - JASmith - 08-07-2019
We have far too many people needing protective custody for one reason or other running around.
“Red Flag” laws are bad when due process is ignored when drafting them.
If, on the other hand, following due process like that applied to those accused of criminal acts would make a big difference.
The decision must not be placed in the hands of a single individual and the accused must be afforded legal counsel, a hearing and have the right to an appeal to a higher court.
I would also submit that the only reasonable path to preventing access by a dangerous person to firearms, knives, automobiles, hammers, baseball bats, explosives, household chemicals, and so on is incarceration. A “Red Flag” law that only removes one type of commonly available tool is useless.
2nd Amendment "rules" should apply to the 14th Amendment - stanc - 08-07-2019
JASmith Wrote:Red Flag laws are bad when due process is ignored when drafting them.Even with due process, I have to wonder if "red flag" laws are not a bad idea. In essence, it's punishing and depriving people of supposedly "unalienable" rights, on the belief that they might possibly commit a crime in the future.
2nd Amendment "rules" should apply to the 14th Amendment - JASmith - 08-07-2019
stanc Wrote:Even with due process, I have to wonder if "red flag" laws are not a bad idea. In essence, it's punishing and depriving people of supposedly "unalienable" rights, on the belief that they might possibly commit a crime in the future.
I share the concern. We don’t have the ability to predict criminal behavior with certainty. Yet, these guys often throw up serious indicators of intent, especially as they get closer to actually doing something. Some of those indicators are crimes either overlooked or ignored until after the catastrophe.
BTW “Red Flag” laws will likely not do anything to protect folks from the sane person bent on what he or she thinks is a just cause, unless they commit crimes. the way to doing their mayhem. Further, the fundamental flaw in these laws, as pointed out in earlier posts, is that they are written in a manner that allows mere accusation, often anonymous, to be used to deprive folks of property with no chance of adjudication before a judge and jury.
The answer really is more aggressive enforcement of existing laws.
2nd Amendment "rules" should apply to the 14th Amendment - Keef - 08-07-2019
If we spent the money we waste(imo) on foreign aid, on mental health/healthcare instead I think this problem could be fixed, or greatly reduced.
I'm just a dumb peasant though.
2nd Amendment "rules" should apply to the 14th Amendment - Klem - 08-07-2019
JASmith Wrote:I share the concern. We don?t have the ability to predict criminal behavior with certainty. .
The Chinese believe they can. Like the Pre-crime division of the Tom Cruise movie they are arresting and detaining people in purpose-built prisons for 'Deprogramming' (Uighur population). Won't work in the Western world without a quantum change in culture, and that's not going to happen in our lifetime.
2nd Amendment "rules" should apply to the 14th Amendment - JASmith - 08-08-2019
Keef Wrote:If we spent the money we waste(imo) on foreign aid, on mental health/healthcare instead I think this problem could be fixed, or greatly reduced.It would be good to see statistics or credible estimates showing the fraction of our “homeless” who have borderline sanity issues or are criminally insane. Institutionalizing these folks would go a long way toward solving the homeless problem.
I'm just a dumb peasant though.
Having a long term care and housing program for people adjudicated to be violently out of touch with reality would go a long time toward reducing crime of all types. It might also reduce the number of “examples” ant-gunners use to “prove” that the existence of firearms is dangerous to the law-abiding citizen.