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+--- Thread: 20 MOA question (/showthread.php?tid=19551)
20 MOA question - JCSC - 09-13-2019
Currently sitting with a standard cant base with 11 mil elevation left @ 100 yd zero.
I run my system in MRAD.
How many Mils will I gain by switching to the 20 MOA base? My calculations show roughly 17.5 mil to reach 1200 yds?
20 MOA question - Kswhitetails - 09-13-2019
Roughly 6 mils. A 20 MOA base should get you there, though I would take a mil off your dial to ensure you're not pushing your optic to it's absolute maximum on the dial. Things tend to get quirky when you get within a few clicks of the stops inside the erectors. Especially with less pricey optics, but it still occurs with expensive scopes.
20 MOA question - JCSC - 09-13-2019
Ok. Well I guess you just use holdovers at that point.
I?m not ready for the distance yet, but I had planned to stretch this gun out ultimately.
I wish I had a local mentor in SC.
20 MOA question - A5BLASTER - 09-13-2019
Think I seen a 25 and 30 moa mount somewheres but for the life of me can't remember where. It might have been a moa rail section I seen, just can't remember.
20 MOA question - Kswhitetails - 09-13-2019
Grendel can do it, but it's not really the envelope. The variables at that distance are exponentially more important and the effect is as great. Grendel really is a 800 to 950 yard toy. Beyond that is doable, but the knowledge required to do it repeatably are drastic. Many report making it happen. It can be done.
However, if that kind of range is on the regular menu, there are far better choices in caliber. There are none, however, in the AR15 platform. And what is out there is nowhere near as fun to shoot.
Doable, of course. Proven even. Repeatable, maybe. Likely? Not hardly. Realism here is your friend. If you want to walk up to the firing line and reach out that far regularly, 6.5 is good. More powder is better
20 MOA question - JCSC - 09-13-2019
Ks. That gun you mention is the next project. Cartridge to be decided yet.
My normal range runs out to 600 so that will be the majority of the shots. I just want to put a good group on paper at 1000 to say I did it. I haven?t even got to load development yet so it will be a bit.
20 MOA question - Klem - 09-13-2019
JS,
I take it when you say you have a 'standard cant base' you mean a base with no cant. If you go 20MOA it will get you another 6Mils.
SPUHR makes 34mm mounts with 6, 13 and 18Mil cant (none in 30mm however). They also don't make cantilever mounts (AR15) in anything more than 6Mils. No doubt because what you are hoping to achieve exceeds reality so there is no demand for it.
You also wont be shooting paper targets at 1,000. It will be large steel or big frame wooden targets that takes two people to lift. Your group sizes will not be theoretical out there. 1MOA at 100 will be at least 2MOA or more at 1,000. Choose a windless day, rest the gun, use a long range scope and take a lot of ammo. If using steel it will be hard to hear the ding. Theoretically, a 6.5 will get to 1,200 yds but such a slow round from a flimsy AR15 is like adapting a heavy bench-rest bolt-gun to do CQB.
20 MOA question - JCSC - 09-14-2019
Understood.
As aforementioned, my range runs out to 600 and that was the intent of this build. I was however under the assumption, based on research, that a longer distance day here and there was a possibility.
Knowing 1200 is basically the transonic range for the cartridge, I am educated enough to know that this is not a realistic goal. Every cartridge has limitations, as well as the platform, which happens to be the AR.
I do however feel that using a ring set that is canted in such a way, as to keep my scope operating within a comfortable adjustment level, will make my chances of operating in the 600-1000 range, substantially better. The Vortex PST line of scopes only has 20 MRAD of elevation adjustment.
I appreciate the feedback. Thanks!
20 MOA question - BobinNC - 09-14-2019
I run a 20 MOA Warne rail on my Howa 20" HB Mini Grendel. My scope is a SWFA SS 3-15x42mm in Ken Farrell standard rings (0.835" high) giving me 40 Mils of total adjustment. With the 20 moa rail I have 25.8 mils of Up adjustment left. The Grendel can reach 1200 yds, but it better not be windy day. The Grendel lacks both velocity and high BC bullets to make an outstanding LR cartridge. But 800 yds and under is really it's primary domain, much like the 308 Win.
I have both a 260 Rem and a 6.5x47 Lapua when I really want to stretch things out at long range. But they both are bigger cases and take considerably more powder and heavier bullets. I like Berger's AR Hybrid 130 gr OTM Tactical in those cases. It's pretty amazing what the 6.5 Grendel can do with under 32 grains of powder, in a case that fits neatly into an AR 15 platform.
20 MOA question - centerfire - 09-15-2019
JCSC Wrote:Understood.
As aforementioned, my range runs out to 600 and that was the intent of this build. I was however under the assumption, based on research, that a longer distance day here and there was a possibility.
Knowing 1200 is basically the transonic range for the cartridge, I am educated enough to know that this is not a realistic goal. Every cartridge has limitations, as well as the platform, which happens to be the AR.
I do however feel that using a ring set that is canted in such a way, as to keep my scope operating within a comfortable adjustment level, will make my chances of operating in the 600-1000 range, substantially better. The Vortex PST line of scopes only has 20 MRAD of elevation adjustment.
I appreciate the feedback. Thanks!
The Grendel really starts running out of gas past 600 yards. I was easily shooting steel IPSC heads at 700 yesterday but there was no wind and unless I could see the hit (I could) the report was inconsistent at best. Just my opinion but the Grendel owns the 100yd to 300yd (danger close) but if you need some horsepower or plan to shoot further than 600yd, bring something bigger.
20 MOA question - FW Conch - 09-21-2019
I bought some of the 130grn 6.5mm Burger Hybrids to shoot in My 260Rem. Can they be effective and accurate in the Grendel at 600yds, shooting paper ?
20 MOA question - A5BLASTER - 09-21-2019
FW Conch Wrote:I bought some of the 130grn 6.5mm Burger Hybrids to shoot in My 260Rem. Can they be effective and accurate in the Grendel at 600yds, shooting paper ?
I don't see why not. I shot my 127 LRX hunting load too 800 yards 6 diffrent times now. And held 8 out of 10 rounds each time.
20 MOA question - Kswhitetails - 09-22-2019
FW Conch Wrote:I bought some of the 130grn 6.5mm Burger Hybrids to shoot in My 260Rem. Can they be effective and accurate in the Grendel at 600yds, shooting paper ?
Federal GMM Grendel uses that bullet. So, Pretty sure it's good to go. I've run GMM out to 960, seems just fine, if a little anemic at that distance. If I remember right, I was using 12 mils at that distance. That's a big if, it was some time ago.
20 MOA question - bfk4lyfe - 09-22-2019
I shoot my Grendel out to 954 yards (public range max, not my idea). The range is at 4500 feet so that gives me a little help but using Hornady Black out of an 18" Larue it takes me ~11.5 mils to get there, its reliable but the wind has its way with it. Computer says 1k is 12.5, doesn't seem right but I can't say one way or the other. 1200 would be sketchy with the Grendel for sure.
20 MOA question - Kswhitetails - 09-23-2019
That sounds about right bfk, I'm at 1200 feet, DA set at 2800, I get it at 12.1 mils.
20 MOA question - koden - 09-27-2019
I posted this a while ago in a reloading thread but its probably of interest here.....
Barrel: John Benjamin 18" .264 LBC chamber (uses 7.62X39 bolt)
I had the chance to shoot the 107 SMK's out past 1K this weekend (2 years ago now). Altitude was around 2800ft. Almost no wind. The load was 29.8g of 8208 loaded to 2.265" OAL. Scope was a Nikon Black X1000 4-16X50 with mrad reticle in a nikon black 20moa mount.
Range / Mils
300 1.2
400 2.2
500 3.0
600 4.5
700 5.4
900 9.5
1350 21.4
I was happy I could get out that far with an 18" barrel. While I was not ringing the steel on every shot (probably around 50%) I could easily see the bullet impacts in the dirt through the scope and they were always right around the target. The plate at 1350 was 17" X 17". Even my son was able to hit it with the 18" grendel.
To get to 1350 I almost maxed out the travel and held on the bottom mark of the reticle using the 20moa mount. The optical chrono said my average velocity was 2620 fps for the load I was using (hornady black 123 factory ammo averaged 2388 fps for reference).
20 MOA question - Lightning8 - 09-27-2019
I have a 20 inch SABRE upper 6.5 Grendel. With a 0 MOA base, I ran out of elevation on my Vortex Viper PST Gen 1 6-24x50 MRAD at 800 yards using 123 Nosler CCs over CFE223. I changed to a Warne 20 MOA one piece mount and ran out of elevation past 1000 yards.
I run my 6.5 Grendel regularly to 800 yards.