phishfood Wrote:The ATF is proposing to change the 4473 form that gets filled out when you purchase a gun from a FFL. They are wanting to put the buyer's personal info on the same page as the info about the gun. This would make it much easier for them to create a gun registry if they were so inclined.

Here is a link that you can use to comment on the draft form.

https://gunowners.org/na03262020/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NA%20%20Resend%20of%20ATF%20Form%204473%202%20%20041620&utm_content=NA%20%20Resend%20of%20ATF%20Form%204473%202%20%20041620+CID_9b322c6b38c115541d16a3b93fd889ad&utm_source=Email&utm_term=I%20urge%20you%20to%20take%20action%20and%20provide%20public%20comments%20to%20the%20ATF%20and%20ask%20them%20to%20protect%20gun%20owners%20private%20information

LR1955 Wrote:PF:

Is the ATF requiring any different information on the 4473 than we already report on this form when purchasing a firearm?

Seems to me that they have all the info to do a registry on the form we fill out now. Why is this any different?

LR55

just_john Wrote:PF, the buyer's info and the firearms info are on opposite sides of the same page on the current 4473. I worked firearms retail for quite a while. In the course of that period, the ATF came in for a review more than once. This is something they periodically did. And they could look at, photograph or simply make copies of any of the 4473's that they wanted to. But, at least in my store, they never did. When Bush ( the younger ) was Pres, he had the rules set such that the NICS folks could not retain any 4473 data more than 48 hrs. Theoretically, we all know that's probably not happening. Any data that's digital lasts forever.

However, have you purchased anything firearms related with a debit or credit card? Guess what! THey gotcha anyway! Everything is stored in the great clearing house in the sky, [ you bought a "what?" from this on-line shop on this day for this amount of money ].

Have you ever talked about your firearms while in a cellular phone based conversation? Guess what! All cellular conversations are stored and filtered! They gotcha!.

Have you ever discussed any firearms on this or any other web-based forum or media? Guess what! They gotcha!

Buyng at a gun show? You were probably photographed by any one of or several of "them" while doing so. ANd you can be sure that they are there. As stated above, I have had the opportunity to sit and talk with the folks from the ATF. BUT, I did learn that, at least among the ones that I talked with, they were really pretty good people and were more on our side than not. They just had a job to do like any other enforcement person.

All "Big Bro" has to do is digitally ask the right question and then plug the answer(s) into their database. If they want to get you, they don't need to find ALL your firearms transactions, they only need to find one of them and they gotcha!

The info on the 4473's is simply a stop gap means of keeping honest people honest. And, the tragedy is how many good people got disqualified because of medical issues during their younger days that had legitimate need for protection and were unable to get it because they were honest when they filled out the paperwork.

And, as if this in't fun enough! For you 80%'ers, if there is no form of SN on those lowers, please plan on living forever! If you die ( most of us will at some point ) your survivor is now a felon as they have taken possession of a non-transferable firearms!

just_john Wrote:It's isn't whether or not you would tell the truth, would your wife or child, not understanding the stage or consequences?
And,again, if the 80% er's are bought with a credit or debit card it is recorded.
As now, if multiple pistols or MSR's are bought within a relatively short time frame ( days ) it is flagged by the ATF, how difficult do you think it is to do the same while watching on line transactions??
The real point is, if you doing 80%er's to hide em, you're only fooling yourself.