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Best Combat Optics - stanc - 03-10-2014

For a 6.5 Grendel carbine, which optical sight do you think is best suited for engagement distances which vary from CQB to 600 meters or more? Please give the reason(s) for your choice.

[Image: img-page_9_16-inch_tactical_series_m4_rif.jpg]

Best Combat Optics - LRRPF52 - 03-10-2014

Elcan 1.5-6x Specter DR is nice. The dot is bright enough for CQM/CQB, and the glass and reticle are great for distance.

[Image: elcan_dotcrosshair_popup.jpg]

For longer distances, I would go with higher magnification in a compact tube, like the NightForce 2.5-10x24.

[Image: MSTNSPR-2.jpg]

Best Combat Optics - cst - 03-10-2014

there is no such animal that will do everything perfectly... depends on your budget too... I'd get the NF 2-10 and mount a mini redot like Dr.optic\trijicon at 45degrees.2x will do great for fast 50 to 150 yards. the 10 would be great for target ID and less than Minute of man sized targets out past 600. the mini reds wont be as fast as a full size red dot but practice makes perfect.

If u can only get one...look at the Vortex 1-6x razor....but I dont think its bright enough in daylight....I wish Trijicon would make the 1-4 accupoint with 1-8 with the same bright fiber optic with tactical turrets....I guess thats what the Vcog is for

Best Combat Optics - cory - 03-10-2014

Stanc are we talking about for your basic grunt, a DMR, or for a SHTF weapon.

Best Combat Optics - LRRPF52 - 03-10-2014

The 1-6x24 Razor HD has a more than daylight visible red dot. With the new reticles, I would throw it in there too with the VMR-2 MRAD reticle:

[Image: ret_rzr-g2_s_1-6x24_vmr-2_mrad_web-subten%5B1%5D.jpg]

Best Combat Optics - cory - 03-10-2014

I just got the Razor Gen II 1-6x24 MRAD from Scott at Liberty Optics in the last week for my 16" Lilja I'm building. I assure you the dot is plenty visible on a bright day. I'll post pictures when I get some range time with it.

Best Combat Optics - stanc - 03-10-2014

cory Wrote:Stanc are we talking about for your basic grunt, a DMR, or for a SHTF weapon.
As per currently for US Army infantry riflemen armed with M4A1 carbine.

Best Combat Optics - BluntForceTrauma - 03-10-2014

A corollary to this question is: Is there any reason US GIs can't have a one-power red dot in something like a compact ACOG, and then, with the flick of a lever or the twist of an eyepiece cup, zoom to 4x for longer range? I'm not an infantryman so don't have firsthand knowledge of what's required, but having an extra red dot mounted on a variable main scope seems clumsy.

Is it possible to have one optic?

John

Best Combat Optics - LRRPF52 - 03-10-2014

HANKA Wrote:A corollary to this question is: Is there any reason US GIs can't have a one-power red dot in something like a compact ACOG, and then, with the flick of a lever or the twist of an eyepiece cup, zoom to 4x for longer range? I'm not an infantryman so don't have firsthand knowledge of what's required, but having an extra red dot mounted on a variable main scope seems clumsy.

Is it possible to have one optic?

John

You mean like this?

[Image: elcan-specterdr-mounted-rifle.jpg]

Already standard in SOPMOD Block II program. Has been for several years already.

[Image: sopmod-b21.jpg]

Best Combat Optics - cory - 03-10-2014

I'm not a big fan of eotech after there recent practices of confiscating military surplus optics. However, I think the HHS I could be the best option for an optic for a Marine Grunt carrying an M4 Grendel. That being said I'd like to see them develop a 6x or 5x magnifier.

The ability to rapidly switch between 1x and 6x with little effort and the ability to have flip up iron sights ready within seconds if a malfunction of the exps3 occurs is very appealing.

I'm with lrrpf52 on the nF 2.5-10x24 or maybe the new x42 for the DMR.

Best Combat Optics - LRRPF52 - 03-10-2014

For Joe tentpeg in an AOR with average engagement distances well within 300m, Eotech or Aimpoint is all that is needed on a carbine.

Switch the AOR to mountainous terrain, desert foothills, or any terrain where average distances are over 300m, and then we drop in a heavier ratio of magnified optics or variable power on the carbines.

DM's need magnified optics in both AOR's, with the 1-6x, 1-8x, and 2.5-10x scopes being preferred. All magnified optics should have a Mil reticle or scale in them to get everyone in the Team, Squad, and Platoon on the same sheet of music when communicating target location and corrections for shot placement to each other.

Best Combat Optics - BluntForceTrauma - 03-10-2014

What I've understood about variable optics that start with 1x is that the Binden concept (both eyes open, red dot from a 4x optic is superimposed onto the field of vision) is better in theory than in practice, particularly at short range panic mode clearing buildings and rooms.

So I've assumed that guys don't necessarily like having a 1x in a tube-type optic, but prefer to reserve them for EOTech's and such. But then one has to add the zoom-power magnifier which, again, seems like a clumsy solution.

John

Best Combat Optics - stanc - 03-10-2014

LRRPF52 Wrote:You mean like this?

[Image: elcan-specterdr-mounted-rifle.jpg]

Already standard in SOPMOD Block II program. Has been for several years already.
Is that the Elcan 1.5-6x Specter DR you mentioned in your first post?

Best Combat Optics - cory - 03-10-2014

HANKA Wrote:What I've understood about variable optics that start with 1x is that the Binden concept (both eyes open, red dot from a 4x optic is superimposed onto the field of vision) is better in theory than in practice, particularly at short range panic mode clearing buildings and rooms.

So I've assumed that guys don't necessarily like having a 1x in a tube-type optic, but prefer to reserve them for EOTech's and such. But then one has to add the zoom-power magnifier which, again, seems like a clumsy solution.

John

I've owned an exps2 with magnifier (the gen before the latest), I felt like the magnifier operation was very smooth. I sold it intending to buy the HHS I, but ended up getting a good deal on an ACOG TA31F. That and the engineer/prepper in me didn't like being reliant on an electronic/batteries for a long term optic.

If eotech or anyone would develop a 5x or 6x magnifier with a milspec ranging reticle for the eotech's I'd sell this acog in pick that up in a second.

Best Combat Optics - PrecisionFirearms - 03-10-2014

The SpecterDR™ by ELCAN is a revolutionary optical design that combines the best of close combat and precision fire ranging features into a single, low profile dual-field-of view (DFOV) sight. SpecterDR™ 1.5-6x, with its dual-role capability gives machine gun operators and designated marksmen a sweeping 1.5x view of the battlefield for target acquisition, then allows instant switching to 6x for accurate, long range precision fire and suppression.

Situational awareness in both magnifications is improved with wider viewing angles and unmatched light transmission in low light conditions. SpecterDR™ 1.5-6x can be ordered with 5.56, 7.62 or .50Cal variable illuminated night vision compatible reticles as well.

We have these for sale. Email pf15@pf15.com for special pricing.

Best Combat Optics - bwaites - 03-10-2014

I'm no soldier, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn once!

3Gun games, which are probably as close as you can get to the abuse any soldiers optic will get, show that the variables have an advantage.

Then it come down to just what reticle works the best in a given situation. I'm waiting for someone to give us a good 2nd Focal plane reticle that is effective at longer ranges for estimating distance, with a usable short range dot or circle reticle. If the reticle was calibrated to give us point blank to 2-300 yards, and then hashed to give us 300-600 ranges, it would be ideal in my mind.

I've seen and played with the new Steiner, Kahles, Vortex, Leupold, Bushnell, and IOR options, and each has some great ideas, but none are ideal to me. None of the more expensive models have enough advantage to make me sell my Vortex 1-6 yet.

The Kahles has a very interesting reticle, but its still not perfect from my viewpoint.

Best Combat Optics - stanc - 03-10-2014

HANKA Wrote:...I've assumed that guys don't necessarily like having a 1x in a tube-type optic, but prefer to reserve them for EOTech's and such. But then one has to add the zoom-power magnifier which, again, seems like a clumsy solution.
I came across this video, which at least partially addresses your concerns. Background music is annoying, but I found the comparison testing informative.

[video=youtube;8YnaP8c-bSQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YnaP8c-bSQ[/video]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YnaP8c-bSQ

Best Combat Optics - LRRPF52 - 03-10-2014

stanc Wrote:Is that the Elcan 1.5-6x Specter DR you mentioned in your first post?

That's the 1-4x. It has a lever on the side that switches from 1-4x when you throw it.

The 1x magnification is very usable, and quality tubes have very little FOV distortion. Combined with a daylight visible red dot, and you have a combo RDS/magnified optic that works in both roles well.

Best Combat Optics - stanc - 03-10-2014

LRRPF52 Wrote:For Joe tentpeg in an AOR with average engagement distances well within 300m, Eotech or Aimpoint is all that is needed on a carbine.

Switch the AOR to mountainous terrain, desert foothills, or any terrain where average distances are over 300m, and then we drop in a heavier ratio of magnified optics or variable power on the carbines.
Once upon a time I tried shooting my Steyr AUG at a steel plate of about 18" diameter, distance ~400 meters (a quarter mile, as measured on the odometer of my 4x4). I didn't expect much from the 1.5X sight with its donut reticle, but I actually hit the target with three out of three shots.

Best Combat Optics - stanc - 03-10-2014

LRRPF52 Wrote:Elcan 1.5-6x Specter DR is nice. The dot is bright enough for CQM/CQB, and the glass and reticle are great for distance.

[Image: elcan_dotcrosshair_popup.jpg]
The features do look good, but weight is listed as 700 grams. If I converted correctly, that's nearly three pounds. Seems pretty heavy. Sad