2nd amendment should supersede your shooting and Grendel interests

[tull66]

Let me preface this with the fact I am a long time reader and very rarely a poster. Let me also say I have never read the 2nd amendment forum before today that I remember. I log on today for some reading enjoyment and clicked on 2A because there is only so much to discuss about a single rifle cartridge. I was appalled to find that the 2A forum was shut down due to differences in opinion and moderation difficulties. I find this troubling for multiple reasons although I did not sift through the forum looking for problems. That said, I would think a thread regarding one of our personal freedoms would be the most popular on a rifle shooting website. I mean, how valuable is reloading data, optical sights, uppers, lowers, and big block blowers without the right to keep and bear arms? Like I said, I am not a reader of the Second Amendment forums, but I understand there were some disagreements. Does the average Shooter know where their rights come from? I don’t think most do. My understanding is a lot of people think their rights come from the Constitution. The rest of them think their rights are granted by government. I think it is very important for everyone to understand that our rights come from our Creator, God. Our rights have always existed in the eyes of the founding fathers. The Constitution allows that a limited form of government can exist and revolve around these God-given rights. Anyone who understands this simple and assumed concept, can’t possibly make an argument on a pro-2nd amaendment website that would require moderation.

[stanc]

I was appalled to find that the 2A forum was shut down...

I was not appalled, but I am experiencing withdrawal symptoms.

I think it is very important for everyone to understand that our rights come from our Creator, God.

Uh, that's the kind of statement that leads to threads being locked. :eek:

[A5BLASTER]

Going get popcorn.

[Double Naught Spy]

Sadly, or maybe thankfully, such faith-based assertions fail to carry much weight in the pragmatic, real world government and legal systems, at least not in ours. Anyone who understands this simple concept can't possible believe that couching the 2nd Amendment in a faith-based argument would trump or resolve all of the difficulties that come from real world and pragmatic applications of rights.

A5BLASTER, be sure to bring some for everyone.

[A5BLASTER]

Sadly, or maybe thankfully, such faith-based assertions fail to carry much weight in the pragmatic, real world government and legal systems, at least not in ours. Anyone who understands this simple concept can't possible believe that couching the 2nd Amendment in a faith-based argument would trump or resolve all of the difficulties that come from real world and pragmatic applications of rights.

A5BLASTER, be sure to bring some for everyone.

Hey no problem going get anouther bag now.

[tull66]

Sadly, or maybe thankfully, such faith-based assertions fail to carry much weight in the pragmatic, real world government and legal systems, at least not in ours. Anyone who understands this simple concept can't possible believe that couching the 2nd Amendment in a faith-based argument would trump or resolve all of the difficulties that come from real world and pragmatic applications of rights.

There is nothing “faith based” about it, neither is it an assertion. The Declaration and Constitution are/we’re both written with the assumption our rights have existed forever before any manifestation of government. This is a simple concept however not all are capable of grasping it. There are no difficulties in the application of rights, only liberals.

[tull66]

OK, I can now see why the second amendment forum was shut down.

[JASmith]

tull66, the sad truth is that understanding the faith-based (in particular, Christian) roots underpinning our Constitutuion is necessary but not sufficent to keep the 2A and other Bill of Rights protections viable.

Our faith, however, can be instrumental in helping understand what needs to be done, how to do it, and developing the necessary strength to take the actions needed.

Most important is being the ambassador and teacher to help more people learn about shooting.

That will bring more allies to the front lines of the political fracas.

[Double Naught Spy]

There is nothing “faith based” about it, neither is it an assertion. The Declaration and Constitution are/we’re both written with the assumption our rights have existed forever before any manifestation of government. This is a simple concept however not all are capable of grasping it. There are no difficulties in the application of rights, only liberals.

What you are asserting is nothing more than faith-based beliefs. When you default argument to a supernatural deity, you are in fact basing your statements in faith.

It is naive to believe that there are no difficulties in the application of rights. If there were no difficulties, there would have been no need for the Bill of Rights, huh?

[stanc]

The Declaration and Constitution are/we’re both written with the assumption our rights have existed forever before any manifestation of government.

However, regardless of belief in the existence of "God given" rights, it is government that determines and defines what are Constitutional/legal rights.

[Double Naught Spy]

However, regardless of belief in the existence of "God given" rights, it is government that determines and defines what are Constitutional/legal rights.

Right. The concept of the origin is heuristically interesting, but the administration of said rights is the basis of all the contention.

[A5BLASTER]

All I want to know is what's the best powder to get my rights going 3000fps out a 16 inch barrel?

And should I use a 4 or 6 port brake over my new magpul bipod?

Have fun gents.

[JASmith]

...and we see how and why the moderators have to spend so blamed much time on 2A-related discussions.

[rwh]

All I want to know is what's the best powder to get my rights going 3000fps out a 16 inch barrel?

You can get your rights to go 3000 fps out of 16 inch barrel? I feel like I've died and gone to the 300 win mag forum. Tell us more.

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

. . . there is only so much to discuss about a single rifle cartridge. . . .

I'm working hard to change that ---

http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=...#msg141931

[LR1955]

Second time in a week I am gobsmacked.

Guys -- my gob can't take this much more.

I will now lock this thread.

The reason is obvious. It is about to turn into a gigantic argument over the existence of God. This has happened before on the Grendel Forum and every single time it has resulted in insults being thrown and the thread being locked. I will not repeat a proven failure hoping the outcome will somehow be different. A sure way to get a thread locked on about any forum is to bring up the topic of God and religion.

And no, the 2A is not 'more important' than the cartridge because the intent of the Grendel Forum is very specifically to discuss aspects of this specific cartridge and general shooting topics of interest. The 2A part was implemented very recently.

Sorry but the 2A forum is not failing because us Mods can't keep it moderated. It is failing for the same reasons any topic involving politics, God, and religion will fail here. Emotional and bitter arguments that aren't remotely tied to the Grendel cartridge, firearms for said cartridge, or the use of said cartridge in hunting, competition, military or LEA, or simple recreation.

So I will lock this thread until my gob heals some.

LR55