Youth Bolt Grendel

[adamkrog]

I'm wondering what everyone's recommendations would be for a bolt action Grendel for kids. I have one turning 10 next year and would like to start training her on a rifle for deer hunting. I currently own a Radical Arms AR-15 Grendel that I really enjoy. I have considered having her hunt with that, but it's got a 20" barrel and it'd be a lot for a kid to carry in the field. So I'm thinking something a little smaller/lighter. As far as I know, none of the available bolt action models are configured specifically for youth. I've thought about building something around a Boyd's At-One that could grow with them, but I'm guessing those aren't exactly light either. It'd probably be simpler to buy a youth model in some other caliber, but I'm reloading Grendel now and don't necessarily want to start with something completely new.

I like the CZ 527, but I'm not sure what's even available for an aftermarket stock with a shorter length of pull. Would the Howa or Ruger offer more options? Are all the standard models essentially the same length/weight? Do they come with removable recoil pads so they could easily be shortened up? It's difficult to compare them because I'm rarely in a store that has any of these models, much less more than one I could compare. I'm probably overthinking this (usually am) but any suggestions or ideas are appreciated.

[Stinky Coyote]

i have a 20" howa lightweight in an mdt lss chassis, talley 1" low rings, carbine buffer tube and mission first tactical battlelink minimalist stock that is a little under 6 lbs all up without scope, right now it wears a leupold vx3i 3.5-10x40 cds and it's 6 lb 11.5 oz, with a lighter scope it will be 6.5 lbs all up, the 20" keeps muzzle blast down

caveat, i had my machinest take 7.0 oz out of the chassis, there's a little extra fat in them, started life at 1 lb 13 oz for the bare chassis, machinest got it to 1 lb 6 oz, my kids can handle this little rig like a champ and it is deadly accurate on the range and it's been deadly on the critters so far too

hope that helps, i do believe it's the lightest chassis build in the world

i think CZ has a 16.5" barrel model with synthetic stock that lists under 6 lbs bare, if you can shorten or get a youth stock for it that could be an option? i think mdt makes a chassis for them now too so you could potentially replicate my build with a better magazine than the dang howa's, the rugers are full size action with stout barrel so they won't be as easy to make lighter

[Lemonaid]

A stock spacer kit and the Ruger American Ranch might be worthy of a look. Ruger's Specs: Weight 6.1 lbs.https://www.ruger.com/products/americanR...36926.html

[kmon]

I wish CZ would offer their 527 carbine youth in the Grendel. Wonder if you could get one of the stocks for it?

[MaineAR]

I just got a Ruger Ranch for my son. Had to pick up a compact stock direct from Ruger for a painful $112 shipped. I was hoping to find a compact stock used, but no luck. I did tell Ruger I was a little bummed that the .350 Legend is all you can get right now in a compact stock. Like what I said mattered though. I figure, worst case, I’ll sell the compact stock when my son outgrows it. Best case, I’ll get another RAR for my daughter and she can use the compact stock on that one too. Sadly, there are about zero compact/youth options for a bolt Grendel right now unless you go custom.

[Harpoon1]

I just got a Ruger Ranch for my son. Had to pick up a compact stock direct from Ruger for a painful $112 shipped. I was hoping to find a compact stock used, but no luck. I did tell Ruger I was a little bummed that the .350 Legend is all you can get right now in a compact stock. Like what I said mattered though. I figure, worst case, I’ll sell the compact stock when my son outgrows it. Best case, I’ll get another RAR for my daughter and she can use the compact stock on that one too. Sadly, there are about zero compact/youth options for a bolt Grendel right now unless you go custom.

Will the Ranch barrel fit in the Compact stock? They’re different barrel profiles, maybe they’re close enough that it will drop right in?

[adamkrog]

Agreed MaineAR. It seems like such an obviously great hunting round for kids. But I guess there's just not enough demand for the bolt actions in general to justify offering a kids version as well. The silly thing is most of these companies already have the stocks available for these actions, they just won't sell it to you as a package.

[MaineAR]

The guy I spoke to at Ruger did mention that they do not sell a lot of the Grendel rifles. But to me, that’s irrelevant. This is all about commercialization for pushing of the 350 legend, which is obvious by the number of options available in the 350 Legend from Ruger. Don’t get me wrong, the 350 is a great round in its own right, but denying options to your consumers for every other caliber that you offer is not a good business model. Requiring that we purchase a rifle and then spend over $100 on a compact stock is not good customer service or customer relations. But Ruger has a history of not being the greatest listener to their customers anyhow.

[LRRPF52]

Agreed MaineAR. It seems like such an obviously great hunting round for kids. But I guess there's just not enough demand for the bolt actions in general to justify offering a kids version as well. The silly thing is most of these companies already have the stocks available for these actions, they just won't sell it to you as a package.

If there wasn’t enough demand for bolt actions, Howa, CZ, and Ruger would not be offering over 100 different factory rifle SKUs right now.

One area of market demand elasticity driven by modularity of the chassis frames is that many of them use AR-15 RETs for stock options, so the customer can configure the stock LOP on the fly, which means daddy, mommy, grandpa, and kids can all shoot the same rifle in a session if desired.



It would be nice to see a more traditional youth model that also has adjustable butt plate LOP.

The CZ 527 Suppressor Ready 16.5” barrel option would be excellent for youths, since they can start shooting suppressed without any muzzle blast to distract them from their first centerfire rifle experience.

[Stinky Coyote]

The guy I spoke to at Ruger did mention that they do not sell a lot of the Grendel rifles. But to me, that’s irrelevant. This is all about commercialization for pushing of the 350 legend, which is obvious by the number of options available in the 350 Legend from Ruger. Don’t get me wrong, the 350 is a great round in its own right, but denying options to your consumers for every other caliber that you offer is not a good business model. Requiring that we purchase a rifle and then spend over $100 on a compact stock is not good customer service or customer relations. But Ruger has a history of not being the greatest listener to their customers anyhow.

I think Ruger has done a great job. It took cz until 2018 to chamber the Grendel launched in 2004. Guys were quickly rebarrelling 7.62x39’s from like 2005 onward. I buy factory so I had to wait all that time to get my cz Grendel. Sad eh? Ruger got with program pretty quick imo. I applaud the ar magazine and American ranch. Great little rifle. I’d like to see more options too but Ruger is ahead of the rest in terms of quicker to market than most. Good team with hornady.

X100 to more youth models

[MaineAR]

I think Ruger has done a great job. It took cz until 2018 to chamber the Grendel launched in 2004. Guys were quickly rebarrelling 7.62x39’s from like 2005 onward. I buy factory so I had to wait all that time to get my cz Grendel. Sad eh? Ruger got with program pretty quick imo. I applaud the ar magazine and American ranch. Great little rifle. I’d like to see more options too but Ruger is ahead of the rest in terms of quicker to market than most. Good team with hornady.

X100 to more youth models

Ruger didn’t chamber the 6.5G until last year which puts them behind CZ a year. Ruger does this a lot, dipping their toes in the market water to gauge the response. They did it with the 6.8 for a couple years with the Mini 6.8 & M77 compact then pulled out when customers wanted it chambered in SPCII. Ruger refused since it wasn’t a SAAMI cartridge, (not that I blame them since 95% of commercial loads are not SPCII). But the hand loaders wanted it. So the response from Ruger was to abandon the 6.8 entirely, and because it probably wasn’t selling too well back then. They don’t listen well to customers historically; it took years to get standard capacity mags commercially for the Mini 14 & 30. It took years to address the Mini accuracy issues and thicken the barrels (only in front of the gas block) and they still haven’t addressed the awful iron sights or the fragility of their firing pins so folks can fire steel cases ammo and not void their warranty in the Mini 14 & 30. But they at least provide a picatinny rail from the factory, a mere 10+ years after they became a thing and customers wanted it.

I don’t think Ruger is going to invest in making more Grendel platforms unless the market explodes for them overnight. They are just on the 350 Legend bandwagon right now and offer over 10 different options between the scout and American rifles in just that caliber. And I don’t blame them, it a popular round for the straight-wall states and young/small shooters everywhere. It’s been out only a couple years and is dominating. If the Grendel were this popular, you’d see more bolt action options from more than just three manufacturers. I’m willing to bet that the 6mm ARC will have more bolt options by June of 2021 than the Grendel does. It’s all about marketing and Hornady and Winchester nailed it with the 6mm ARC & 350 Legend. Rounds like the Grendel, 6.8, 30 RAR are victims of either poor marketing and investment or not enough of it because the people who created it didn’t have the bankroll that the big guys do. I’d love to see more Grendel (and x39) bolt action options. I just don’t think it’ll happen unless their is more market demand. But in the meantime, if Ruger doesn’t listen to customers about the issues with the American rifles in 6.5G, or possibly offer a compact option for young shooters, then sales will dry up and they’ll abandon the round. Which is stupid, because the fix is with Ruger, not the customers.

[Stinky Coyote]

Ruger didn’t chamber the 6.5G until last year which puts them behind CZ a year. Ruger does this a lot, dipping their toes in the market water to gauge the response. They did it with the 6.8 for a couple years with the Mini 6.8 & M77 compact then pulled out when customers wanted it chambered in SPCII. Ruger refused since it wasn’t a SAAMI cartridge, (not that I blame them since 95% of commercial loads are not SPCII). But the hand loaders wanted it. So the response from Ruger was to abandon the 6.8 entirely, and because it probably wasn’t selling too well back then. They don’t listen well to customers historically; it took years to get standard capacity mags commercially for the Mini 14 & 30. It took years to address the Mini accuracy issues and thicken the barrels (only in front of the gas block) and they still haven’t addressed the awful iron sights or the fragility of their firing pins so folks can fire steel cases ammo and not void their warranty in the Mini 14 & 30. But they at least provide a picatinny rail from the factory, a mere 10+ years after they became a thing and customers wanted it.

I don’t think Ruger is going to invest in making more Grendel platforms unless the market explodes for them overnight. They are just on the 350 Legend bandwagon right now and offer over 10 different options between the scout and American rifles in just that caliber. And I don’t blame them, it a popular round for the straight-wall states and young/small shooters everywhere. It’s been out only a couple years and is dominating. If the Grendel were this popular, you’d see more bolt action options from more than just three manufacturers. I’m willing to bet that the 6mm ARC will have more bolt options by June of 2021 than the Grendel does. It’s all about marketing and Hornady and Winchester nailed it with the 6mm ARC & 350 Legend. Rounds like the Grendel, 6.8, 30 RAR are victims of either poor marketing and investment or not enough of it because the people who created it didn’t have the bankroll that the big guys do. I’d love to see more Grendel (and x39) bolt action options. I just don’t think it’ll happen unless their is more market demand. But in the meantime, if Ruger doesn’t listen to customers about the issues with the American rifles in 6.5G, or possibly offer a compact option for young shooters, then sales will dry up and they’ll abandon the round. Which is stupid, because the fix is with Ruger, not the customers.

ruger didn't even start making these ar cartridge length american ranch's until 2015...the ruger amercian was launched in 2012, the cz 527 had already been making 7.62x39 bolt actions before the Grendel was even released in 2004, it took cz 14 years to grab a reamer and throw a 6.5 grendel barrel on something the aftermarket guys were doing to those rifles for well over a decade....ruger chambered the grendel within 5 years...well done

how long did it take sako/tikka to recognize the 6.5 creedmoor and start chambering it? also an unusually long time, i don't have the exacts on that but the creedmoor was released in 2008 and i was checking sako/tikka sites for chambering a couple years ago and not seeing it so a good 10 years i'd have to say there....ruger is WAAAAAY faster than that and faster than anyone else to embrace newer cartridges so i have to applaud that

we will just have to agree to disagree

if sako ever chambers the 6.5 Grendel on the xs action 85's that might be my final Grendel and the pinnacle goal...i won't hold my breath, eventually it may happen as good cartridges never die and the 6.5 Grendel falls into that category

[Stinky Coyote]

It would be nice to see a more traditional youth model that also has adjustable butt plate LOP.

the mdt lss chassis picture here, just throw a carbine length 6-7 position buffer tube on it and a magpul ctr or mission first battlelink minimalist butt stock on it and there's your adjustable length of pull

that chassis is 1 lb 13 oz bare, a machinest can take it down to 1 lb 6 oz bare, adding the buffer tube and mission first battlelink butt stock and talley low rings which won't require any cheek risers for decent eye to scope alignment and say a leupold vx3i 2.5-8x36 brings you to about 6.5 lbs all up on a 20" lightweight. The 22" standard is only 4 oz heavier and barrel is same contour, so you could drop the 22" back to 20" or better yet go to 18", use the ergo slim grip for this set up, it will fit smaller hands but more importantly it has the rubber backstrap piece that helps get your hand back far enough away from the trigger to feel right, the squared off pistol grips on these howa mdt have the trigger not far enough away so your finger is wrapped way around it fyi

[MaineAR]

I think we are saying then same thing, just a bit different as far as what was introduced and when. I think we both agree that manufacturers are too slow, in many cases, to recognize and produce rifles in cartridges that are screaming for them to be made. I’d love to see the M77 compact in x39 again (still kicking myself for selling it), and I think those rifles would be great with a 6.5G as well. I guess all we can do is hope and e-mail manufacturers in an effort to get what we want.

[MaineAR]

ruger didn't even start making these ar cartridge length american ranch's until 2015...the ruger amercian was launched in 2012, the cz 527 had already been making 7.62x39 bolt actions before the Grendel was even released in 2004, it took cz 14 years to grab a reamer and throw a 6.5 grendel barrel on something the aftermarket guys were doing to those rifles for well over a decade....ruger chambered the grendel within 5 years...well done

how long did it take sako/tikka to recognize the 6.5 creedmoor and start chambering it? also an unusually long time, i don't have the exacts on that but the creedmoor was released in 2008 and i was checking sako/tikka sites for chambering a couple years ago and not seeing it so a good 10 years i'd have to say there....ruger is WAAAAAY faster than that and faster than anyone else to embrace newer cartridges so i have to applaud that

we will just have to agree to disagree

if sako ever chambers the 6.5 Grendel on the xs action 85's that might be my final Grendel and the pinnacle goal...i won't hold my breath, eventually it may happen as good cartridges never die and the 6.5 Grendel falls into that category

I think we are saying then same thing, just a bit different as far as what was introduced and when. I think we both agree that manufacturers are too slow, in many cases, to recognize and produce rifles in cartridges that are screaming for them to be made. I’d love to see the M77 compact in x39 again (still kicking myself for selling it), and I think those rifles would be great with a 6.5G as well. I guess all we can do is hope and e-mail manufacturers in an effort to get what we want.

[Harpoon1]

I think we are saying then same thing, just a bit different as far as what was introduced and when. I think we both agree that manufacturers are too slow, in many cases, to recognize and produce rifles in cartridges that are screaming for them to be made. I’d love to see the M77 compact in x39 again (still kicking myself for selling it), and I think those rifles would be great with a 6.5G as well. I guess all we can do is hope and e-mail manufacturers in an effort to get what we want.

The Ruger American Predator in 6.5 Grendel came out early 2018. The “Ranch” came out last year.