This looks like fun.

[Keef]

I've been looking to do a course and finally found one close enough. Just wondering if I would need a 20moa scope mount to make it to 800yards. Scope is a Lupy VX6 3-18x. Rifle is 16" Grendel.

http://educateequiptrain.com/product/int...ange-rifle

Its a two day course taught by US Army/FBI/Special Reaction Team Sniper Chief Paul Smith.

Here is a copy/paste from the site for people that don't want to follow the link.

DESCRIPTION
COURSE INFO

Duration: 2 Day, 8 a.m.- 4 p.m.
TOPICS COVERED

Safety
Equipment selection and maintenance
Marksmanship fundamentals
Zeroing
Body positions
Range estimation
Reading Wind
Holdovers
Positional Shooting
Data entry out to 1,000 yards
GEAR REQUIREMENTS

Hearing and eye protection
Pencil/pen and notepad
Data entry book (available for purchase from Frontline Defense)
Calculator
Rifle*:
.300, .308, 6.5, etc. [NO .223/5.56 (unless it’s at least a 20″ barrel) .50 cal, or .338 Lapua]
Rifle must be able to shoot groups at least 1 MOA at 100 yards
Rifle should be bull barrel
AR10 style rifles are allowed
YOUR RIFLE NEEDS TO BE ZEROED AT 100YDS AHEAD OF TIME.
Rental rifles are already zeroed. We will confirm all rifle zeros at the range
Scope:
Mil-Dot reticle or MOA reticle with external adjustable knobs for elevation and windage.
Scope must be capable of MOA adjustments to 800 yards (example: 40 MOA for 1,000 yards on a .308 and 12 Mils for 1,000yds on a .308); a 20 MOA riser may be necessary
You will have an opportunity to view a variety of scope makes and models during the course
Bipod [recommend 6″-9″, 9″-12″ is too tall] and rear support bag. GA Precision or Tab Gear Style. Not a bench rest rear bag. We have some if you don’t.
Cleaning kit, oil with patches and rags
Tools for your optics and rifle, in case adjustments are needed
Owner Manual for your scope
Pants [NO shorts]
Comfortable footwear for rough terrain
Rain gear
Hat
Backpack for gear, water [provided] and food [you must provide your own lunch/snacks]
160 rounds of quality long-range ammunition: For the .308, 175gr is preferred over the 168gr. Ammo should be BTHP or match grade [NO Core-Lokt hunting ammo; know your bullet drop and velocity. Having data cards or a phone app or Kestrel is recommended.

Shooting mat [optional; we can provide one for use if needed, free of charge]

[bj139]

"Mil-Dot reticle or MOA reticle with external adjustable knobs for elevation and windage"

Does your scope have target turrets? It sounds like a requirement even before worrying about a 20 MOA base.

https://www.leupold.com/scopes/compact-s...ed-reticle

I will try to find a similar course near where I live. Thanks.

[Keef]

Scope should be GTG adjustable turrets with a zero stop on the elevation dial.

Here is a link to the scope, let me know what you think...the one in your link is not like mine.

https://www.leupold.com/scopes/compact-s...-3-18x44mm

[bj139]

I only know what I've read about long range but here is my advice.
If you have an Android phone download Strelok, a free ballistic program.
It says you will need 54 MOA to get to 1000yds with a 123g .4BC bullet at 2400FPS.
Your scope has 75 MOA adjustment so 37 up and 37 down.
With a 20 MOA base you can get to 37 + 20 = 57 MOA so it will just make it.
You would have some extra by using one of the lower dots on your mildot scope.

I did find a course in Lewistown, PA, close enough for me to drive.

I think LRRPF52 teaches a similar course. I am sure he will chime in.

[LRRPF52]

Biggest thing I've seen is that people with optics that aren't appropriate for long range struggle in a multi-day LR course.

Same goes for ammo and rifle.

It really does help to have a solid, repeatable target scope with target knobs, or a reticle with enough elevation and windage holds in a known format (usually Mils or MOA) to be able to repeatedly and predictably make hits at distance.

People that have brought scopes that don't have some type of reticle appropriate for windage holds and the ability to compensate for elevation waste a lot of time trying to find a solution to the corrections, and miss the conditions.

Which reticle do you have in your Leupold? There are 2 reticles they have available for that scope that are appropriate for LR courses.

The Fire Dot duplex reticle is not one of them, and will make for 2 very frustrating days.

The TMOA and Impact 29 MOA are the only ones I would consider, but I wouldn't use anything other than a Mk 6 if I had a choice of Leupolds.

[Sticks]

341 feet ASL - Yeah, you are going to need the 20 MOA mount.

[Kilco]

As a huge fan of the 16" Grendels, I can honestly say that unless your skills are honed you are gimping yourself right out of the gate with that rifle at that ASl.

Do you have any other appropriate rifles for such a class?

I have long range steel behind my house and practice regularly, and at 660ft ASL my 810 yard 12"x12" plate can be very challenging with my 16" Grendel in varying winds with handloads pushing the 123 eld-m 2460-2480.

[Keef]

Thanks for all the input guys. Looks like my scope isn't as good as I thought. My reality has been checked. Maybe I'll just do the carbine course they offer.

[Kilco]

Thanks for all the input guys. Looks like my scope isn't as good as I thought. My reality has been checked. Maybe I'll just do the carbine course they offer.

That is a phenominal scope for what it's made for. I love the Leupold scopes for hunting, and yours has awesome glass.

You can also stretch it out quite far with that scope, but for a class like that you would want something made for that discipline of shooting.

[StoneHendge]

Keef, why don't you rent one of their rifles? Going through the course with the proper equipment would likely save you money in the long run because you would know exactly what it needs and takes if its something you want to pursue. It would also give you a chance to observe and talk to your classmates about their equipment

[Crews]

You’d be way better off with a $1000ish Vortex Gen II PST or a Nightforce SHV F1. And a rifle with a longer barrel.

As far as vertical travel to make it to 800 yards... my rifle Grendel with an 18” barrel shooting Hornady Black ammo needs 8.7 mils of adjustment at that distance. Shooting in Houston (basically at sea level) with a MV of 2430fps.

[bj139]

From Strelok, a free ballistics program for Android and iphone.

It's not really code but it seemed to format best when I did this.

Code:

Slope angle, degrees: 0.0 Cartridge: 6.5 grendel Bullet weight, grains: 123.0 Bullet speed, f/s: 2550.0 at temperature, °F: 80.0 Temperature coefficient, %: 2.5 Ballistic coefficient (G1): 0.4 Rifle: overwatch 6.5 grendel Zero Distance, yards: 100.0 Scope height, inches: 1.7 Vert. click, MRAD: 0.1 (0.34 MOA) Hor. click, MRAD: 0.1 (0.34 MOA) Zeroing weather. Disabled Weather Altitude, feet: 328.0 Temperature, °F: 80.0 Pressure, inHg: 29.53 Wind speed, mph: 10.0 Wind direction, degrees: 90.0 Distance, yards Bullet speed, f/s Vert. correction, MOA Vert. correction, MRAD Hor. correction, MOA Hor. correction, MRAD 0.0 2552.5 0.00 0.0 0.0 0.00 50.0 2448.8 0.24 0.1 0.4 0.12 100.0 2350.1 0.00 0.0 0.8 0.24 150.0 2253.9 0.92 0.3 1.3 0.37 200.0 2160.1 2.20 0.6 1.7 0.50 250.0 2068.9 3.68 1.1 2.2 0.64 300.0 1980.3 5.31 1.5 2.7 0.78 350.0 1894.0 7.08 2.1 3.2 0.93 400.0 1810.0 8.99 2.6 3.7 1.09 450.0 1728.7 11.03 3.2 4.3 1.25 500.0 1649.6 13.23 3.8 4.9 1.42 550.0 1572.5 15.58 4.5 5.5 1.60 600.0 1498.0 18.09 5.3 6.1 1.78 650.0 1425.9 20.79 6.1 6.8 1.98 700.0 1356.0 23.69 6.9 7.5 2.18 750.0 1288.1 26.80 7.8 8.2 2.40 800.0 1222.4 30.15 8.8 9.0 2.62 850.0 1158.8 33.76 9.8 9.8 2.86 900.0 1097.4 37.66 10.9 10.6 3.08 950.0 1038.1 41.87 12.2 11.5 3.34 1000.0 981.0 46.44 13.5 12.4 3.61

[HowaGrendel]

I only know what I've read about long range but here is my advice.
If you have an Android phone download Strelok, a free ballistic program.
It says you will need 54 MOA to get to 1000yds with a 123g .4BC bullet at 2400FPS.
Your scope has 75 MOA adjustment so 37 up and 37 down.
With a 20 MOA base you can get to 37 + 20 = 57 MOA so it will just make it.
You would have some extra by using one of the lower dots on your mildot scope.

I did find a course in Lewistown, PA, close enough for me to drive.

I think LRRPF52 teaches a similar course. I am sure he will chime in.

very few scopes will zero at the middle of elevation adjustment.....he may have 30 or he may have 40....after zeroing the only way to know for sure how much elevation you have left is to click scope to where it stops and count the actual elevation.....that way you know whether or not you will need a canted rail...