Randy99CL Wrote:He knows vector16, LOL what are the odds of that? He IS vector 16, same wild claims, same bad grammar and incomplete thoughts, same childish reaction to negative comments.
Isn't it funny that two different posters show up at about the same time with both making wild claims about one unpopular process? Someone's got a financial stake in this.
This troll needs banned, along with his alter ego.
Randy:
He didn't last too long. And yes, it was apparent he is a troll.
As for Vector 16 -- he hasn't done anything to warrant being banned.
Trying to BS extremely competent and experienced shooters like Klem is a bit strange to me, but doesn't warrant being banned.
04-09-2018, 05:22 PM (This post was last modified: 04-09-2018, 05:32 PM by Klem.)
A big reason I frequent this site is because I believe the discussions to be truthful and unbiased. When I realise commercial interests are using the forum to encourage sales I get suspicious and resentful. Especially if the poster disguises their intentions by pretending to be an unbiased third party. Frankly, I don't care whether the cryo treatment works or not because it was introduced with bias. That said, I'm with 55 on the provenance of the treatment. My understanding is that cooling barrels is a way of relieving stress and is done during the barrel making process, not afterwards. If you're thinking of going to this much effort you should just buy a quality barrel from a reputable supplier.
On a lighter note there are some funny posts in this thread that made me laugh.
StoneHendge Wrote:I'm thinking of sending in my tank barrel - I've been stringing shots past 4000 yards.
JP cryo's all of his barrels and I don't think anyone can say that it hurts. I will say my JP barrel can maintain accuracy and go longer between cleanings than any other barrel I have. I will be spending the weekend with the legend himself and will see if I can extract any empirical evidence.
SH:
Allow me to use your post as an example for what I witnessed a number of years ago. In no way am I trying to downplay or criticize your opinion. Also, I never said that I thought cryo hurt anything, only that it didn't necessarily help either. When I say 'help', I mean giving a quantum improvement in performance.
I own a JP race gun upper in 6.5 Grendel. Must be the best pointing and handling upper I have ever owned. Perfectly balanced, easy to swing, easy to point and handle. The barrel is very thin and uses the radiator type of barrel cooling system that JP developed. If JP cryo's all of his barrels, then this one has been cryoed. Why do I say 'if / then'? Because the only thing remarkable about the barrel is that it will shoot any decent round of ammo to one minute, precisely as JP guaranteed. I have gotten a load or two to hold between 3/4 and 1 minute but nothing any better. I am not disappointed because it does exactly as JP guaranteed, which to me is no small feat these days. I am sure it would be great for action shooting types of sports which is again what JP does. It would be absolutely horrible in High Power even if I were allowed to shoot a rifle with a brake. Cryo or not, I bet the barrel is right at the top end of bore size for a 6.5.
I own a number of uppers and bolt rifles with plain old carbon steel / heat treated barrels. Every single one of them will outshoot that JP barrel any day of the week.
And that is what went on when cryo became popular for a short period of time. Some guys swore it gave a huge edge, some said it didn't do anything and a few said it hurt.
So I contend that it is a means of stress relieving and probably won't make a good barrel any better.
Maybe companies are using it because it is a cheaper process? Ask JP if you get the chance.
I've had cryo'd barrels that didn't shoot. I don't know anyone that thinks cryo treating alone is beneficial. It won't make a copper spout with ratchet marks anything more than the sowes ear it started as.
Thought that would get a rise. Same guy as vector. Or a brother. I tried to make the point LR55 did about how if cryo was the magic bullet every barrel would be using that process, even the cheaper ones. Not to mention every military, police rack, and armory in the world would have by now their own dips.
I have nothing at all against discussion of ideas. Just get annoyed when the fur starts to make the corners of the room hairy.
Nothing kills the incentive of men faster than a healthy sense of entitlement. Nothing kills entitlement faster than a healthy sense of achievement.
Cryo treating was a very short lived fad about twenty or thirty years ago. The guys shooting cryo treated barrels swore it worked. Then more and more guys started using cryo barrels and opinions started to differ. I think the rage for cryo barrels was about two or three years then collapsed. Once more people started using cryo treated barrels, more and more said it didn't do anything. A few said it made things worse.
I guess if a guy wants to dump more money into a barrel then he can get it cryo treated and it won't hurt anything but it probably won't make anything better, either.
Your choice guys. I don't think it does much if anything.
LR55
I vote with '55. For all the years I've been associated with 2 industries using tons, literally tons, of steel pipe, barrels, etc, and really heavily immersed into the properties of steels and many other metals, I've never heard or seen any of them cryo treated for stress relief. Maybe it helps, maybe not. All I see are testimonials.
The stress relief of steels and other strength metals that I have known about has always been about careful heating to x temperatures, and then specific cooling regimes to relieve stresses at the grain boundaries without affecting material properties of strength, toughness and hardness. US Navy and US commercial nuclear field. Several metallurgical and materials Science PhD's all colleagues or associates, and no one has mentioned. So, on my side it's an argument from silence... again, might help but might not.
And to '55's later post I also +1, as my Dad used to say "if it is so great then it would be standard procedure for every offering out there."
Better to dump money into training the nut behind the trigger. More (accurate!!!) bang for your buck!!!
"Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"
Come to think of it, I want to get a corner on the market of doing cryo to all the Navy ship guns out there!!! And come to think of it maybe I can get some $$$ to do it to the Submarine hull steel to prevent it from cracking until it goes down to 10,000 leagues under the sea!!!
MAKE me some money!!!!
"Down the floor, out the door, Go Brandon Go!!!!!"
We may be closer to shooting Nirvana than ever imagined
1) HBn bullet coating
2) 3r rifling or polygonal rifling or multi-radial rifling
3) Cryo treat
Each adding velocity while minimizing friction of the bullet through the barrel , heck that’s an extra 200 FPS without changing a powder load charge!!!
I’ll be downstairs in Mom’s basement if anybody has any questions...
HuntTXhogs Wrote:We may be closer to shooting Nirvana than ever imagined
1) HBn bullet coating
2) 3r rifling or polygonal rifling or multi-radial rifling
3) Cryo treat
Each adding velocity while minimizing friction of the bullet through the barrel , heck that’s an extra 200 FPS without changing a powder load charge!!!
I’ll be downstairs in Mom’s basement if anybody has any questions...
Well, while packing the rear end of anything is not something I’d usually encourage posting about on a public forum SH, you sir, pull it off with style.
Nothing kills the incentive of men faster than a healthy sense of entitlement. Nothing kills entitlement faster than a healthy sense of achievement.
