No More Russian Ammo

[montana]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEuKAzGgoDA

[biodsl]

One of the benefits of the Grendel over the ARC or 6.8 was the availability of steel case ammo. That was then....

[StoneHendge]

This could actually have a positive impact for reloaders. All the order mentions is ammo. Send us the primers!

[BVickery1974]

This could actually have a positive impact for reloaders. All the order mentions is ammo. Send us the primers!

I don't think you can get their primers anymore as well. Hear people who say they are amazing but can't find them anymore.

[BluntForceTrauma]

Not happy about this. Article from The Firearm Blog HERE.

So many abuses of power. Every little "crisis" — real or imagined — is used to further the brutish agenda of the tyrannical Elite.

The only reason America is not circling the drain (and that can be argued) like the rest of the English-speaking world — like England, Scotland, Ireland, New Zealand, and Australia — is because of the Second Amendment.

The Second Amendment is THE Number One Target of the tyrannical Elite and the last bastion of freedom in the whole world.

[montana]

Not happy about this. Article from The Firearm Blog HERE.

So many abuses of power. Every little "crisis" — real or imagined — is used to further the brutish agenda of the tyrannical Elite.

The only reason America is not circling the drain (and that can be argued) like the rest of the English-speaking world — like England, Scotland, Ireland, New Zealand, and Australia — is because of the Second Amendment.

The Second Amendment is THE Number One Target of the tyrannical Elite and the last bastion of freedom in the whole world.

Yup, they diminish the already shrinking supply of affordable ammunition to the American gun owner and use the excuse to punish Russia. Yet Biden stops our energy independence to create a better oil market for the Russians and energized trade with communist China. He wants to create millions of felons of former law abiding gun owners over a pistol brace, while handing over billions of dollars of military weapons to the very same terrorist we have been fighting for over 20 years.. Biden closed the border with Canada to protect us from covid, while opening the southern border and uses private and military transport to ship covid infected aliens across our nation. This is turning into a plot from the movie Idiocracy.

[LR1955]

Guys:

Someone needs to take a look at see just how much of the cheap ammo falls into this ban. I got a feeling it isn't a gigantic portion. Also got a feeling other places will pick up on it and start producing blasting ammo. Aguila comes to mind as one of them.

LR55

[lazyengineer]

I've heard mixed reviews on the relative effectiveness of it. For now, I don't have a very good feeling; as blocking incoming Russian ammunition is consistent and tidy with the current administration goals. At first glance is sounds like existing importation permits will be honored, but I don't know if that means current importers get to continue to import indefinitely; or if it's more of a case of the stuff in-bound in the near-term gets to still come in, but will dry up thereafter. My expectation is it will be closer to the latter.

Grendel had two advantages over 6.8:
-Longer legs for ~same performance close range(ish).
-Option to shoot at nearly 1/3 the cost.

The second advantage is about to go away, I suspect. We'll see. Which is a big deal for Grendel shooters if so.

I have every confidence Wolf will figure out an alternate supply chain via other nation's state-arsenal systems. I'm sure we'll see 5.56 and 9mm recover first, one way or another. We'll see if 6.5 Grendel makes it into that recovery plan. What made it so nice was Bill Alexander apparently flew to Russia, convinced them to make Grendel, and worked with them on the best design and techniques to make it (or so the lore goes). It was tidy because it was made on the same 7.62x39 lines, using the same shell-holders and such, but with just a few die-changes; so it was easy for them to do Grendel runs - once they figured it all out and had the systems and expertise in place to do so.


One likely silver lining (well, we'll call it grey) is that 7.62x39 shooters will have to switch to brass. Which means you'll be finding more 7.62x39 brass laying around. For the reloader, those turn into 6.5 Grendel brass for essentially no extra effort (I just turn my standard die down a bit, and that's it, no annealing, no fireforming special runs. Just run and go).

[VASCAR2]

Igman Ammunition from Bosnia and Herzegovina has started coming into the US. This company currently is filling orders for Saudi Arabia and is trying to meet western standards. ZKE from Turkey is importing ammo but currently not in huge quantities. Igman and ZKE both are producing steel cased ammo as well as brass cased ammunition. Will either company be able to produce the quantities as Tula or Barnaul, maybe eventually as there is a ready market. If there is enough profit and resources available there is an opportunity to fill the void. I liked the Barnaul 6.5 Grendel ammunition at the cheaper price. Once the price got to $.70+ per round I’d just as soon buy brass cased ammo. Fortunately I stocked up and can reload for quite a while. I don't shoot very much factory ammo whether pistol or rifle ammo. I think some of Wolf rimfire ammo was also imported from Russia.

With Covid and disruptions in the supply chain it might take a few months for the ammunition market settle down.

[BluntForceTrauma]

There are two separate issues here.

One issue is whether we can "get around" the ban and source ammo from elsewhere, and life goes on as normal. We can and we will. (Although why some entrepreneurs haven't set up a U.S.-owned and -based steel-case factory is beyond me. I once asked Bill about this and he cited the huge capital costs as the prohibiting factor. Wouldn't it be cool it someone figured out how to use SIG's or True Velocity's new ammo making technologies to produce cheap ammo?)

The second issue is the cynical and corrupt abuse of governmental authority to erode the Second Amendment via bureaucratic fiat.

[StoneHendge]

Capital costs are one of the big factors in making cheap ammo in the US, but it's not just the manufacturing equipment. All of the regulations as it relates to OSHA, fire safety, etc. make it impossible to compete. There's likely many examples, but think of all the requirements there would be in the US given the amount of lead in a factory. Air scrubbing equipment, handling regulations, waste and wastewater disposal, etc. Not all of it's bad, but an american factory couldn't compete with a Russian, Turkish, Pakistani, etc. factory where employees (making a low wage) are walking around in sandals breathing lead vapors.

[dammitman]

didnt alexander arms design this round to be used effectivly around the use of steel case ammo in the beginning? i know i read that some where,,,,,,

[BluntForceTrauma]

Bill didn't design it specifically FOR steel-cased ammo, but he designed the whole system with steel-case in mind. For example, the SAAMI cartridge neck spec of .300 instead of the more standard .295 was a nod to being able to work reliably with steel-case.

[Harpoon1]

Guys:

Someone needs to take a look at see just how much of the cheap ammo falls into this ban. I got a feeling it isn't a gigantic portion. Also got a feeling other places will pick up on it and start producing blasting ammo. Aguila comes to mind as one of them.

LR55

I’m hearing it’s 40-45% of all ammo sold in the US. Quite a chunk!

[montana]

I’m hearing it’s 40-45% of all ammo sold in the US. Quite a chunk!

The 40% number comes from Guns and Ammo and one of the largest importers of Ammo, who was unnamed...

[lazyengineer]

The 40% number is fairly inflated. Russia is the single largest importer with 750,000,000 rounds imported in 2020, but of the top 10 importers, only represents about 20%. And that doesn't include US supply.



That said, of 6.5 Grendel ammunition - heck it migh crowd that 40% mark at least some. I'd say easily 40% of my total round-count fired, is Wolf, and of my inventory of live ammo, Wolf steel makes up 90% of the total count on shelf (though a little misleading since I have relooding componts that aren't all pre-assembled into live ammo yet.).

[lazyengineer]

https://m.imgur.com/JcqzWgI

[grayfox]

From an ammoland article Nov 2020:
Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2020/11/how-muc...z74gLxiDkQ
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

"A reasonable extrapolation [from 8.7 B rds in 2019] puts the amount of ammunition produced for the United States market at somewhat over 9 billion rounds, of which 5 billion are rimfire and 4 billion are centerfire rifle, pistol, and shotgun rounds in 2020."

The article does not differentiate from domestic or foreign production however...

[riuma]

I have been reading about this ban. I understand it as being a ban on new licensure to import from Russia and it doesn't affect current importers. Am I reading this incorrectly?
~Riuma

[lazyengineer]

I have been reading about this ban. I understand it as being a ban on new licensure to import from Russia and it doesn't affect current importers. Am I reading this incorrectly?
~Riuma

That's the detail we're all trying to figure out. Existing permits will continue to be honored, but what does that mean? Do existing importers retain an eternal importation permit for an unlimited quantity? Or is it a case where the current permits are defined in both duration and content; not to be renewed. And so will the supply will dry up in as little as a few months?

That's the big detail I'm certainly curious about!