22 vs 24 inch 6.5 Grendel Velocities.....

[LRRPF52]

22" Lilja AR15 barrel

123gr Nosler Custom Competition
CFE223 2013-2015 era lot


30.1 2434
30.4 2459
30.7 2474
31.0 2510
31.3 2560
31.6 2599


Howa Mini Action 6.5 Grendel 22" Sporter

123gr SST
LEVERevolution

29.8 2453
30.1 2465
30.4 2499
30.7 2517
31.0 2534
31.3 2596
31.6 2608
31.9 2605
32.2 2658

123gr AMAX/31.2gr CFE223 10-shot avg

2592fps

129gr SST/LEVERevolution 2.310" COL

29.3 2370 2407
29.6 2393 2400
29.9 2448 2405
30.2 2453 2404
30.5 2504 2453
30.8 Error 2475
31.2 2485 2512
31.4 2530 2523
31.7 2534 2545
32.0 2572 2572

[Stinky Coyote]

Both new barrels, hornady black

Five shot string ave

Howa 20” 2470 fps
Cz 527 24” 2552 fps

[bj139]

[SDguy]

I've been shopping bolt-action rifles and have bought three new ones in the past couple of months.

Unfortunately, no one makes a 24" 6.5Grrr rifle. If someone wanted that length they'd have to get one barrelled by a custom maker.

Would you consider any other calibers?

I built my 6.5G AR almost a year ago and that was my introduction to the magical world of 6.5mm bullets.
About a month ago I bought a Rem 783 Walnut (in 6.5 Creedmoor) on sale for $350. 22" barrel, nice wood, great checkering, incredible trigger. Great rifle for the money, way better than any plastic stock. 6.5CM is almost as cheap to shoot as Grrr, Hornady makes AG for it too.
https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore..../ID/207280

So then started looking for a 6.5CM with 24" barrel for longer ranges. Ended up with an incredible price (I'm on a tight budget) on a Ruger Hawkeye FTW in 260 Rem.

I love the Grendel and it will always be my AR-15 cartridge of choice but if you're wanting more it is so easy and cheap to step it up to Creedmoor (and others) and get a lot more performance.

Just my 2 cents.

Edit: Oops, does CZ make Grr rifles in 24"?

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/790236562

[jkingrph]

I've been shopping bolt-action rifles and have bought three new ones in the past couple of months.

Unfortunately, no one makes a 24" 6.5Grrr rifle. If someone wanted that length they'd have to get one barrelled by a custom maker.

Would you consider any other calibers?

I built my 6.5G AR almost a year ago and that was my introduction to the magical world of 6.5mm bullets.
About a month ago I bought a Rem 783 Walnut (in 6.5 Creedmoor) on sale for $350. 22" barrel, nice wood, great checkering, incredible trigger. Great rifle for the money, way better than any plastic stock. 6.5CM is almost as cheap to shoot as Grrr, Hornady makes AG for it too.
https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore..../ID/207280

So then started looking for a 6.5CM with 24" barrel for longer ranges. Ended up with an incredible price (I'm on a tight budget) on a Ruger Hawkeye FTW in 260 Rem.

I love the Grendel and it will always be my AR-15 cartridge of choice but if you're wanting more it is so easy and cheap to step it up to Creedmoor (and others) and get a lot more performance.

Just my 2 cents.

Edit: Oops, does CZ make Grr rifles in 24"?

Yes CZ does make the 527 Grendel AMERICAN in 24", at least that's the length on mine that I bought about 18 months ago. I just checked the specs on their website and it is 24"

[A5BLASTER]

Yes CZ does make the 527 Grendel AMERICAN in 24", at least that's the length on mine that I bought about 18 months ago. I just checked the specs on their website and it is 24"

They have 2 grendels.

The American 527 with a 24 inch barrel and a American varmint in the American stock with a 25.6 inch threaded barrel.

[Stinky Coyote]

They have 2 grendels.

The American 527 with a 24 inch barrel and a American varmint in the American stock with a 25.6 inch threaded barrel.

And the American is more like 23.5” with a tape measure. Mine is.

[DougM]

I ordered a 6.5G with 24" barrel from Atheris Rifle. It is not made in-house and there's been an issue with their supplier. They're sending it to me with a 22" and swapping out after my hunt is over. Good, responsive company to work with so far.

[Harpoon1]

And the American is more like 23.5” with a tape measure. Mine is.

+1

[Stinky Coyote]

Bone stock cz 24” (actual more like 23 5/8”) have me 2552 fps on 5 shot string after short break in.

Bone stock Howa 20” gave me 2476 fps on short break in but notorious for tight bore and a chrony session after a few more boxes showed just over 2500 fps.

My 16.1” barrel ruger American ranch rifles give 2386 fps average after short break in and after many boxes still the same it seems.

All this with hornady black ammo.

I did throw a true 24” plus proof research carbon barrel on the cz and these are hand lapped custom of course and had my smith keep it long on the chamber end so likely 24.5” and averaged 2605 fps with hornady black.

Factory barrels if you do math on the fps per inch on my factory barrels from the cz down to the ruger then you get a drop average of 22.1 fps per inch. Which falls in line with the 20-25 fps per inch rule of thumb most often found in internet searches for most cartridges.

Hornady black is rated at 2580 fps for 24” barrel Fyi. I’ve always found factory ammo out of factory barrels around 30 fps actual shy of rated velocity in 24” barrels. So it’s online with what I expected to see. I’ve chronied a lot of factory builds with factory ammo as I don’t reload over the past 20 years. That’s my story...I’m stickin to it.

[Nodak]

I am liking the 16" barrel velocities compared to the 20. I may cut my Mini to make handier as I always run a can

[Stinky Coyote]

I am liking the 16" barrel velocities compared to the 20. I may cut my Mini to make handier as I always run a can

Yup I'm ok with it also and I'm only interested in Hunting. I love the 123 gr hornady black for several reasons but high bc is one, it's high sd is another, and it's construction for these velocities on game is ideal for my needs. So using a moderate minimum impact velocity threshold of 1800 fps, at my elevations that's just over 400 yard range. Not bad for something that only burns 30 grains of powder. I no longer plan to shoot big game further than that so I'm ok with 16". For those who want to go further you can use this rule of thumb as I've run all the numbers from various barrel lengths I've already chronographed from several grendels I've owned in 20" and 24" also.

Average distance potential is 15 yards per inch of barrel length from 16.1” to 24”.

So 24" barrel will add about 120 yards range potential to land at same impact velocity of 1800 fps. Deer/Antelope likely be fine with 1600 fps impact velocities and there was a guy who dumped an antelope at 752 yards on here with a 24" barrel estimated impact 1500 fps. So there's that. The 6.5 Grendel is quite versatile. Elk or Moose fine to 400 yards, deer/sheep/antelope as far as you can shoot well I guess. Barrel life out of a bolt action at 2386 fps, 52,000 psi and only 29.6 grains of powder? Could be infinite.

[Oso Polaris]

The general consensus for Barrel Burners is:
22-250: 1000 rounds
243Win & 6Rem: 1500 rounds
6.5 Creedmore & 260Rem: 2500

Keep in mind these are baselines/guidelines (not hard rules), and actual use (frequency of firing/#shots in a string, powder load volume) will significantly effect each barrel’s life. “Barrel Burner” is a subjective term… I believe most people consider it at the point where peak accuracy drops off due to throat/barrel erosion causing groups to open. The magnitude of a group opening up is dependent upon the use of the rifle. Barrels that shoot beyond these “guidelines” may still be sub MOA and more than acceptable for normal use, but unacceptable for competition.

Advances in metallurgy has greatly improved barrel life. Bartlein recently introduced a new barrel steel that supposedly 2x-3x barrel life. If concerned about barrel life then download your charge weight (don’t chase max loads), or select a smaller cartridge (6.5 Grendel vs 6.5 Creedmoor), and lastly reduce your rate of fire. Basically, anything that decreases the amount of heat the barrel has to endure will extend your barrel life.

When I shoot Bolt rifle, I am shooting no faster than a shot a minute for my load development, and then I let the barrel cool off to ambient temperature between groups. However, everyone throws this type of discipline out the window when it comes to AR15’s. There is a subconscious switch that gets kicked over … this rifle was designed to shoot fast, it was designed for long shot strings or why else would it come with 30 round mag. Everyone treats it like a 10/22 and ignores fact that barrel on AR is no different than barrel on bolt rifle. Same use/abuse rules apply and affect its accuracy. I am just as guilty - My trick to over-come this “issue” is to use a 10-round magazine at the range and load no more than 5 rounds at a time. Lastly, If you are using a factory barrel then these guidelines are less meaningful (barrel consistency varies considerably for factory mass produced barrels.

[Stugotz]

FWIW, I was out last weekend trying to figure out what is the best hog hunting load is in my 22" Criterion Barreled Grendel and came up with the following 3 shot groups:

Bullet for all loads was a 129gr Hornady Interlock CCI standard small rifle primers and Power Pro Varmint powder.

28.3 grains yielded the following 3 velocities: 2,386 - 2,387 - 2,388

28.6 grains yielded the following 3 velocities: 2,401 - 2,389 - 2,412

28.8 grains yielded the following 3 velocities: 2,459 - 2,453 - 2,449

Velocities measured with my Labradar.

All 3 shot groups yielded 3/4" center to center groups with the final one coming in at 1/2" C to C.

[rookie7]

I have a Howa mini 20” HB and I get 2450 with a 123 eldm using 27.7 gr of IMR 8208 and a Fed SRP - Starline Brass.

[Feral]

This turned out to be a great thread with a lot of good information.
Kudo's to the OP.

[jackRyan]

I realize this is an old thread, but wanted to revive it just a bit. I have a 18 inch AR with an Faxon barrel, an 18 inch AR with a Sanders Armoury barrel, and a 13 inch Sanders armoury barrel, and I bought a Sanders Armoury 24 inch barrel I am building as I write this. The only reason I am even thinking about an AR with a 24 inch barrel is because I have axcess to two ranges close by with 1000 yard ranges. The extra 100fps or so increase in velosity means everything in a 1000 yard range plinker. It will make loading a lot easier. i went the bolt action route and sold both bolts because of disaopinting accuracy. The Sanders Armoury barrels have made me a believer in the AR 15 accuracy department. I would never carry it to hunt with, but i an thinking it will be a fun rifle at 1000 yard steel plinking. keep in mind that a 120 gr boolit load will fly long and true. A creedmore would be nice, but i have better results with the grendel at the range. I already have everything to load for it

[JASmith]

You can get pretty good estimates of velocity gains from longer barrels by using the estimator at http://shootersnotes.com/velocities-and-...estimator/ or go to ammoguide.com where there are well over 600 loads for the Grendel. Almost all of these are linked to a utility that estimates velocity changes if the listed barrel length is not the one you are considering.

Also, as a Grendel fanatic, I am forced to admit that, for 1,000 yard shooting with an AR15, one might want to compare the 6 ARC drift numbers against those of the Grendel. One might find that a 24 inch barrel isn’t needed.

[animalspooker]

Am I safe in saying that, if I want to shoot at longer ranges with the CZ527 sporting a 24" barrel, the length is not going to 'hurt' anything? I guess what I mean is, should I consider having it cut down to 22" or even 20" if I want to try 1000 yards?

[garyrapp55]

If I were focused on 1k yards, I'd leave the 24" on it. Shorter barrel=slower speeds, powder and bullet weight depending.