Our military adopting the Grendel?

[LRRPF52]

This to me is a bit stunning. Not that I don't believe it, just that even M262 ballistics are getting pretty wimpy past 500 yds, much less 750. At 500 yards it's roughly the same as .22 mag muzzle velocity.

I know of people killing deer with 22 mag and properly placed shots, so no doubt it's possible. But is it repeatable? Or a good idea tactically?

I guess I don't see these examples are addressing the perceived issues with M4/M885 in the "half K" challenge reportedly seen in A'stan. Add to that using an ACOG, just does not seem representative.

But I agree with all your points about training, etc.

Having shot HK91 with iron sights & milsurp ammo extensively at longer ranges, my view is that it's easier to hit at range than M-4's. And this seemed to be true for anyone who picked it up. My kids don't like shooting it with a scope because it's more fun for them to hit at range with open sights. Not advocating G3/FAL/M14 as service rifles, just that I do believe the M4 is harder to shoot by grunts than some of the alternatives.

All I know is that if A'stan is anything like the footage I've seen, I'm not sure the M4 is the best we have to offer. With or without M262 and ACOG's. I have a son in his first year at West Point. He will likely branch infantry, which likely means A'stan in about 4 years. Realistically, I don't see much changing armament wise by then. So it's something I think about occasionally.

But occasionally logic does prevail. Multi-cam allowed to replace ACU in country. Rethinking other decisions made by committee. (ACU, Strykers, M16A2, etc). That's balanced by huge defense cuts. I'm probably more concerned that my son won't get logistic support, ammo, or have enough personnel than I am about which rifle.

Interesting discussion, nonetheless!

That also brings up the point I have made about key leaders and the weapons they carry, since Lieutenants don't engage the enemy at distance. They carry M4's as a last resort PDW for the close-in fight in a worst-case scenario of being overrun.

I've experienced some pretty amazing results with 77gr Scenars out of 18" SPR's out to 850m, which is much further than 750yds. As far as a 7.62 goes, yes, you have way more retained energy at 500m than a 5.56, but the trajectories are academic in difference from two 20" rifles, one M16 with M855, and one 20" 7.62. The drop of the M855 is actually less, while the 7.62 bucks the wind better at 500, both weapons starting with a 25yd zero. The 7.62 also has more than twice the energy at that range, but more than twice the recoil as well. Both will just be punching holes through people at that range anyway.