Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge
Tony Williams Wrote:Sorry, but I can't resist this:

"Tell that to the Marines!" Cool

I don't need to, as the #1 go-to individual service rifle in MARSOC is not rifle at all, but a 14.5" SOPMOD Block II M4A1 with rifle-length handguard, along with 10.25" barreled CQBR's, augmented with Mk11's in 7.62 for the DMR's if they're not using a 5.56 carbine or SPR for that role, which is quite common. They are also playing a very active role in all the theaters of conflicts burning right now, to include the crackistan.

The effective range to maneuverability ratio of the 20" M16A2/4 compared to the 14.5" M4 doesn't justify fielding of the M16, especially to dismounts. There is little practical advantage that might be realized on certain shots the guys might encounter, versus the length and weight penalty they will always encounter, which is why units that have the choice dropped M16's like a bad habit long ago.

The top-level decisions of the Marines and enforcing stupid ideas on their conventional units is a leadership problem again, as evidenced by the rigging of the IAR trials to favor the HK, when the troops expressed most satisfaction with the Ultimax, which is a no-brainer if you are familiar with it. But Ultimax doesn't have big HK pull in D.C., so Joe tentpeg will again take it in the rear per SOP.

The adoption of the AR15 is a logical anomaly in the US history of small arms procurement, which had a lot to do with its reception by Special Operations, its brutal wound effects witnessed and documented during Project AGILE, and influence from a President with actual military experience who learned that Army Ordnance Corps had rigged tests to make the M14 come out on top (and still failed at that). We have the documents where the directive was given to conduct the tests, as long as the M14 was shown to be the winner. These guys are corrupt to the core, especially when you start peeling back the scabs of the contractor-senior officer-Pentagon love triangle. Don't ever expect a weapon to be selected based upon its merits, may I present to you the following examples:

M14
M60
M249
M9
M24

The AR15/5.56 is a rare success story in the history of US Small Arms Procurement, which is why it has trucked on for longer than any other service rifle, and not only in the US, but its still-growing dominance around the world.
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Messages In This Thread
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-07-2011, 11:19 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by RedFalconBill - 03-09-2011, 12:31 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-09-2011, 04:13 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by RedFalconBill - 03-10-2011, 05:04 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-10-2011, 05:42 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by RedFalconBill - 03-11-2011, 04:19 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-11-2011, 06:24 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by RedFalconBill - 03-12-2011, 02:27 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-12-2011, 03:02 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-12-2011, 03:48 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-12-2011, 03:28 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by warped - 03-12-2011, 06:05 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-12-2011, 07:02 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by longdayjake - 03-12-2011, 07:53 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-12-2011, 08:41 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by warped - 03-12-2011, 10:59 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by RedFalconBill - 03-14-2011, 03:21 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-14-2011, 04:13 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by RedFalconBill - 03-14-2011, 02:41 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-15-2011, 08:52 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by warped - 03-16-2011, 03:47 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 03-17-2011, 01:53 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 03-17-2011, 03:25 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 03-17-2011, 02:38 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by RedFalconBill - 03-18-2011, 05:16 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 03-22-2011, 08:30 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 03-22-2011, 01:11 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 03-24-2011, 02:54 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 04-27-2011, 07:19 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 04-29-2011, 01:00 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 04-29-2011, 07:33 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 04-29-2011, 07:36 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 05-25-2011, 06:18 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 05-29-2011, 07:09 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 05-29-2011, 02:21 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 05-29-2011, 06:02 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 05-31-2011, 07:31 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 05-31-2011, 08:33 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 05-31-2011, 09:35 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 05-31-2011, 11:25 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 06-01-2011, 12:15 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 06-01-2011, 04:36 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 07-12-2011, 09:38 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 07-12-2011, 01:41 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 07-12-2011, 06:17 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 07-13-2011, 07:04 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 07-17-2011, 11:05 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 07-17-2011, 11:21 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 07-17-2011, 01:35 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 07-17-2011, 04:47 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by patdaly - 07-20-2011, 02:30 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 07-20-2011, 07:55 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by warped - 07-20-2011, 08:07 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 07-20-2011, 09:46 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by warped - 07-21-2011, 02:44 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 07-29-2011, 01:59 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 07-30-2011, 12:10 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Jaywalker - 08-22-2011, 02:56 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 08-22-2011, 06:24 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Jaywalker - 08-22-2011, 01:34 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 08-22-2011, 03:29 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 08-24-2011, 02:15 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 08-24-2011, 02:36 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 08-24-2011, 03:52 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Jaywalker - 08-27-2011, 12:22 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 08-27-2011, 12:52 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Jaywalker - 08-27-2011, 01:08 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 08-27-2011, 02:31 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 08-27-2011, 02:45 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 08-27-2011, 02:58 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 08-27-2011, 03:43 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 08-27-2011, 04:59 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Jaywalker - 08-27-2011, 06:30 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 08-27-2011, 07:10 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 08-27-2011, 08:07 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by warped - 08-27-2011, 11:46 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 08-28-2011, 12:36 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 08-28-2011, 12:41 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 08-28-2011, 02:32 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 08-28-2011, 02:51 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Jaywalker - 08-29-2011, 01:27 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 08-29-2011, 02:16 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 10-19-2011, 02:56 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 10-19-2011, 01:42 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 10-19-2011, 05:34 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 10-19-2011, 07:24 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-20-2011, 09:05 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-20-2011, 10:12 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-20-2011, 10:42 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-20-2011, 11:25 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-21-2011, 11:08 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-27-2011, 03:55 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-27-2011, 08:27 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-30-2011, 05:05 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-30-2011, 04:14 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 11-30-2011, 11:25 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-01-2011, 06:19 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-01-2011, 08:48 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-01-2011, 09:29 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-01-2011, 09:37 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by appleseed-kdc - 12-01-2011, 01:56 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-01-2011, 02:03 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-01-2011, 05:24 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-01-2011, 07:47 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-01-2011, 08:01 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-02-2011, 09:51 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-02-2011, 11:46 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-03-2011, 05:23 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-03-2011, 09:00 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-03-2011, 09:11 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 12-03-2011, 03:44 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-03-2011, 04:05 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-03-2011, 04:37 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 12-03-2011, 04:46 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 12-03-2011, 05:04 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-03-2011, 07:34 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 12-03-2011, 08:53 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-04-2011, 02:43 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 12-04-2011, 03:30 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-04-2011, 05:44 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-04-2011, 10:17 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 12-04-2011, 02:23 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-04-2011, 07:53 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 12-13-2011, 04:18 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-14-2011, 05:26 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 11-19-2013, 05:21 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-19-2013, 05:57 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by woohoo - 11-19-2013, 08:11 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 11-19-2013, 11:01 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 11-20-2013, 03:00 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by woohoo - 11-25-2013, 05:04 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 11-27-2013, 07:07 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by woohoo - 11-27-2013, 07:19 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by woohoo - 11-28-2013, 01:24 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-28-2013, 04:29 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-28-2013, 04:48 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-29-2013, 07:26 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by woohoo - 11-29-2013, 08:10 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-29-2013, 08:26 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-29-2013, 10:33 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by woohoo - 11-29-2013, 10:51 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 11-30-2013, 12:26 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 12-01-2013, 07:16 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-02-2013, 01:15 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by woohoo - 12-02-2013, 02:25 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-02-2013, 02:54 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 12-02-2013, 03:42 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-02-2013, 04:34 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by woohoo - 12-02-2013, 05:24 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 12-03-2013, 05:21 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 12-03-2013, 05:55 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 01-17-2014, 09:49 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 01-17-2014, 09:57 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by LRRPF52 - 01-17-2014, 11:02 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 01-18-2014, 02:00 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 01-18-2014, 03:30 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 01-18-2014, 02:46 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 01-18-2014, 03:42 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 01-19-2014, 07:55 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 01-20-2014, 01:35 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 01-20-2014, 03:07 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 01-20-2014, 03:44 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 01-20-2014, 03:23 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 01-20-2014, 09:53 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by woohoo - 01-21-2014, 02:37 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Tony Williams - 01-21-2014, 04:33 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 03-27-2014, 09:48 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by Trooper - 03-28-2014, 01:58 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by nincomp - 03-28-2014, 06:09 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by explorecaves - 07-01-2014, 01:15 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by explorecaves - 07-01-2014, 02:14 AM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by nincomp - 07-01-2014, 03:22 PM
Grendel as a Universal Infantry Cartridge - by JASmith - 08-07-2014, 02:09 PM

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