Accuracy: Finding the bar?

[lazyengineer]

Lemonaid,

I think you've might have been swept up with other members exaggerations.

With a top-dollar stainless match barrel with mechanical rest on a calm day.Multiple 4-rd gp averages. Counting every shot, including fliers.
1 moa very good
3/4 moa Excellent
1/2 moa Extraordinary and suspicious.
1/3 moa Damn lies
1/4 moa Dreaming

I would say this is much more accurate. For what it's worth, if you can consistently hold and shoot 2 MOA all day, you will never lose a High Power Service Rifle Match; and will beat the best riflemen in the world on a regular basis. First, there's the mechanical accuracy inherent to the gun held in a very steady vice with no wind, to which Klem's posting is correct. And then there's the real world, which is wider then that even.

Also, there's actual accuracy, and there's 3-shot cherry picking.

Finally, while it's insufferable when people talk about precision vs accuracy, there's some reality there. Most people who post amazing photos of their 1 hole group that they cherry-picked for the internet, show that amazing group about 1.5" away from their point of impact. Don't get me wrong, they're right to be proud - i'll do it! And posting that data is useful as an indicator. But also kind of keep in mind, that a a tight group that misses, doesn't help! I'll take a centered 1.5 MOA gun any day, over a 0.25 MOA gun (if that even exists), that can't seem to actually find the bullseye. But that said, sure, it IS a great indicator, and I encourage people to keep posting such.

The short answer, if you can get 1 MOA reliably out of your gun and ammo - pragmatically, that's Very Good, and you're done! Improvements beyond that get a lot harder to do, but more importantly, have rapidly diminishing pragmatic value.

Lazy's criteria:

--4 MOA = no good
--3 MOA = disappointing, but can work. This is M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, AK country, which a lot of people use to good effect.
--2.5 MOA = serviceable. Not ideal, but large number of real-world practical shots are within this. This is Wolf Steel country, and fine for gong-banging out a few hundred yards. I've got an AUG that's opened up to this, and I still score in top rankings with it in open-field shooting at gongs in competition with it - as the gongs are typically 4 MOA territory.
--2 MOA = serviceable. Decent enough for the vast majority of real-world shots, and even some competition usage. If I'm doing this with off-the shelf brass ammo, I'm satisfied.
--1.5 MOA = Good. If I have an M4 that I can do this with some minor tuned handloads. I'm good. This is the outer level of accuracy for competition usage.
--1.0 MOA = Very good. This takes tuned or premium quality ammo to actually achieve, in my experience. Don't just expect to regularly do this with Wal-Mart ammo and a basic rifle; this is Very Damned GOOD. In my opinion, 1 MOA is also the pragmatic limit of actual real-world accuracy. To monolog a bit: This is to say, if you take a gun capable of this or greater, and take a shot at a gong that 500 yards away; even with excellent wind-call and excellent distance estimation, you are not going to pragmatically be impacting better than 1 MOA from your desired point of impact on your first shot; no matter what. Aside from how inherently accuracy of the gun is; how one addresses the rifle will affect its POI. Picking up a rifle sighted on one bench using sandbags, and dropping it in a different setting - means the shooter is almost certainly not addressing the rifle quite the same as how it was zero'd. For what it's worth, the USAMU PRS shooter in Semi-auto division, who wins matches, once measured the actually accuracy of his AR10(style) last year, and found it to be about 1.25 MOA. He wins, because he knows how to shoot, and 1.25 MOA is enough to win. For the most part, if your gun can average 1 MOA out of 3 five-shot groups - you're done, that's a great gun and ammo.
--0.75 MOA = Excellent. In my opinion, this is match-grade accuracy. It takes considerable effort and good quality ammo to get this down to multiple 5-shot groups averaging this. This is starting to be a real test of a rifleman's skill as well, for the reasons mentioned just above.
--0.5 MOA = Exceptional. This often takes heavy barrel bench rest shooting with a Master or High Master class level rifleman, to consistently do this (i.e. not just one cherry-picked group)
--<0.5 MOA = Exaggerations of the above. This starts getting really really rare, and when you see it, ask to see the group before or after. I've shot groups down below half-MOA. I've shot 2 groups in a row, with other ammo tested in between, better than half MOA. It can be done. But this is exceptional. And can I really say I'll do it again next time? Donno. Can I REALLY say I'll be hitting 5 shots within 0.25 MOA of my intended point of aim next time I pick up that gun and put it down again? Hell no.

All of this is intended as pragmatism, not to be judgy. If you go shoot a 0.4 MOA 3 shot group, by all means - post that sucker! And say look what I was able to do, that's a 0.4 MOA group. PLEASE! I want to see that data! It's very useful to see that stuff! It's a great indicator that this is a higher-end capable combination, and hey, this is a good rifleman too! Just be aware when interpreting such postings, that doesn't mean you should expect that gun to every time to put 10 shots within 0.2 MOA of the crosshairs, is my point there.

Take care!