09-16-2019, 05:52 PM
Alright, to clarify. What defines morality? If it's men, then you yourself see and point out clearly the folly of following man. The folly of following government, and letting government (man) define your roles in society. My point is that despite the sociological evolution, most of the moral principles the founders cornerstoned our country on were those that originated from a source that was greater than man. From a place most men thought of (some still do) as larger than themselves.
Here's the dirty little secret, we are a nation of man, founded by man, under the wisdom of man. We are reaping today the benefits of more and more folks believing that there is no higher power than government(man). After all, as you so eloquently point out, "it is,... Government that determines and defines Constitutional and legal rights." This was my point when I said that when we start believing in ourselves we start going astray.
Slavery was part of the world, as was child marriage - even forced marriage, as was the social standing of women. It wasn't the founders that just thought to themselves "hey, lets marry children, enslave people, and belittle women". That too is a false narrative lacking objective historical clarity. Those were societal factions of the time. I'm not saying they were right, but it wasn't unusual or new to America either. And, there were good men who fought all of those allowances from the beginning, because they believed morally that they were morally and socially wrong.
Stan, point out to me a place on earth founded by man that has led to more prosperity, more individual sovereignty, more liberty, more opportunity, more hope for mankind. The point is that it was the founders belief in God that led to most of the original intent in setting up a system of government that was the best that man could do to levy rules upon society in such a way as to maintain as much individual sovereignty as possible. And I fundamentally disagree with you. Your individual sovereignty makes you Lord and Master of your domain. Government be damned. That was a big part of what the founders tried to set up, but realized all too soon that man is inherently evil, and left to his own design, will corrupt any society. Power corrupts, et. al.
There must be limits of power. But how much is too much? Who decides? I am just glad that the majority of these original limits were decided and won by the men who thought "Love thy neighbor as thyself" was a worthy thing to believe in and practice. The genius of America is how much of the individuals sovereignty is protected. Unlike any other place in the world, unlike any other system of government among men. We are unique. We are astounding.
Here's the dirty little secret, we are a nation of man, founded by man, under the wisdom of man. We are reaping today the benefits of more and more folks believing that there is no higher power than government(man). After all, as you so eloquently point out, "it is,... Government that determines and defines Constitutional and legal rights." This was my point when I said that when we start believing in ourselves we start going astray.
Slavery was part of the world, as was child marriage - even forced marriage, as was the social standing of women. It wasn't the founders that just thought to themselves "hey, lets marry children, enslave people, and belittle women". That too is a false narrative lacking objective historical clarity. Those were societal factions of the time. I'm not saying they were right, but it wasn't unusual or new to America either. And, there were good men who fought all of those allowances from the beginning, because they believed morally that they were morally and socially wrong.
Stan, point out to me a place on earth founded by man that has led to more prosperity, more individual sovereignty, more liberty, more opportunity, more hope for mankind. The point is that it was the founders belief in God that led to most of the original intent in setting up a system of government that was the best that man could do to levy rules upon society in such a way as to maintain as much individual sovereignty as possible. And I fundamentally disagree with you. Your individual sovereignty makes you Lord and Master of your domain. Government be damned. That was a big part of what the founders tried to set up, but realized all too soon that man is inherently evil, and left to his own design, will corrupt any society. Power corrupts, et. al.
There must be limits of power. But how much is too much? Who decides? I am just glad that the majority of these original limits were decided and won by the men who thought "Love thy neighbor as thyself" was a worthy thing to believe in and practice. The genius of America is how much of the individuals sovereignty is protected. Unlike any other place in the world, unlike any other system of government among men. We are unique. We are astounding.
Nothing kills the incentive of men faster than a healthy sense of entitlement. Nothing kills entitlement faster than a healthy sense of achievement.