Concealed Carry Stops Mass Shooting in Church

[stanc]

Well,it does relate to your post.If you you agree that "Anytime someone pulls a gun in public,they are a threat to life and must be stopped."
Then you must acknowledge that the FFL holder who went for his gun also agreed with my statement.

Yes, that seems likely.

There is the assumption of logic here that may not be realistic in any way. It could very well be argued based on his actions that he wasn't going to start shooting unless the congregation failed to give him the cash the church had refused him on previous occasions or unless they didn't bend to his demands. He may have been there to kill people, but hadn't fully worked up the nerve to do so, or was having second thoughts before starting. Who knows what was going through his mind?

None of us know what was going through his mind. What we do know is that he did not start shooting until he was faced with a lethal threat to his life.

Why did he turn to run away? I don't know that you and I watched the same video. Looks to me like he simply opening the distance between him and the immediate threats and turning to kill the preacher at whom he attempted to fire. Fortunately, his third shot missed.

What third shot of his? There were only three shots in total that are heard in the video: Two by the gunman, and one by the security guard.

If the security team had not drawn then maybe the two killings may not have occurred. Sure. In the realm of possibilities, that is one possible outcome. In the realm of possibilities, so is mass murder. He threatened the lives of people there. He showed ability (had gun), opportunity (was present within range of gun), and intent (pointed gun at a person).

Pointing a gun at a person does not prove intent to commit murder. We do not know what his intent was when he first produced the shotgun.

• You don't know what he was thinking or intended.
  
• We know that he pulled the trigger and murdered two people.
  
• We know that the parishioners tried to defend themselves.
  
• We know they were entitled to defend themselves using such force that is necessary.
  

We also know that he did not start shooting until he was faced with a lethal threat to his life.

To imply he was the victim...

I implied no such thing.

You would have to be the most stubborn, crafty, anti-gunner I have ever come across.

Yes, I'm such a crafty, dedicated anti-gunner that in order to deceive people into thinking I'm pro-gun, I spent over a quarter-century writing articles like this: https://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/b...ndel-65mm/

I call it the 9/11 hijacking rule. Before 9/11, if the plane was hijacked - everyone cooperated, you'd land in Cuba, and be home in a week. After 9/11 - you have no choice but to assume you all are going to die, and fight tooth and nail. If you take a bullet, it means the next guy isn't taking one and maybe he'll be able to do something, because you're all dead anyway otherwise.

Today, a large 2-handed firearm drawn like that with obvious ill intent in a place of innocence; you have to assume it's for the purpose of a mass-murder now. And act accordingly. If it means a bad draw while facing the guy, for the purpose of drawing the fire and attention so that others can respond more effectively, then sucks you drew that card today - so be it; that's what you do. Not to say I expect or demand anyone to do so; but the guy was a real hero in my book, as I suspect he indeed knew how this was going play out.

I agree with you, for the most part. However, typically in church shootings, the gunman does not come in and sit through a sermon, then talk to people and hold one at gunpoint before getting around to shooting the congregation. Instead they walk in and start blasting away. In this case, the gunman did not start shooting until the CCW drew his weapon and became a threat to the gunman.

IMO, it was foolish of the CCW to draw when he did. He had zero chance of success, and accomplished nothing but get himself (and the other parishioner) killed. Better to have waited until the gunman's attention was diverted, enabling the CCW to engage.

Guys: This is exactly what Stan wants -- an endless argument.

Actually, I don't. I regret allowing myself to get drawn into these arguments.