05-05-2011, 09:42 PM
I just watched an interview with Mossad Ayoob back in 1990, where he was asked about which caliber/bullet is best for incapacitation. His response was that there is no such animal because there is no statistical, empirical baseline from which that question can be answered scientifically. He did say that he prefers the use of hollow points made to tight QC standards where bullet performance was predictable as far as velocity and expansion are concerned.
When I first saw the diagram displayed above, which is an artist's rendition of military assault rifle wound profiles dating way back (with added representations of Mk262 & 6.8 SPC), I remember how it contrasts with the large black book of forensic documentation of actual wounds that I studied back in 1998. This leads us back to the "no empirical data" position again. We can gel test all day long, but the gel tests don't incorporate bone or tissue segmentation which is fundamental to human and mammalian anatomy. They might give us a theoretical baseline from which to compare projectiles with each other, but how do we interpret that data to come to conclusions on what the projectiles will do on tissue?
Can we agree that the information is limited, but not totally useless? For example, when viewing this forum before the crash, I saw a lot of guys in the hunting thread say that they would never use the Nosler 100gr Ballistic Tips for hunting except on varmints, because it is basically explosive on tissue. Guess what my next purchase was? After I do some testing with the Nosler 100gr BT on certain mediums, it just might be in my bedside gun if I can reliably say that I have a significantly reduced capacity to endanger anyone beyond the intended target in a home defense scenario. Since the US uses the Hague guidelines, despite our signatory status, the Nosler BT is out of the question as far as I understand it.
Regarding rear weight bias projectiles such as the 7N6 (5.45x39mm original production), 7N10, 7N22, and 7N24, there are differences in the shape of the armor penetrator, but they all have a hollow nose cavity. The Russian guys I have spoken with who actually have used and do use AK74-based weapons in the Caucasus region said they had some problems with the 7N6 exhibiting radical ricochet characteristics that were lethal to friendlies, especially when supporting troops who were assaulting a building entry point, and the RPK-74 gunners and riflemen would lay down fire in front of the guys getting ready to go in. This resulted in the development of the 7N10 and higher projectiles that use a tungsten rod versus a sectional steel/lead core.
This is the design that interests me the most, and could be great for a barrier blind/tissue expansive device. Now find someone to manufacture such a bullet, test the prototypes, decide if it's worth pursuing, and move from there. If such a projectile could demonstrate a better of both worlds performance over M855, Mk262, and AP even, that would gain the military's attention, provided it could be done at reasonable costs.
LRRPF52
When I first saw the diagram displayed above, which is an artist's rendition of military assault rifle wound profiles dating way back (with added representations of Mk262 & 6.8 SPC), I remember how it contrasts with the large black book of forensic documentation of actual wounds that I studied back in 1998. This leads us back to the "no empirical data" position again. We can gel test all day long, but the gel tests don't incorporate bone or tissue segmentation which is fundamental to human and mammalian anatomy. They might give us a theoretical baseline from which to compare projectiles with each other, but how do we interpret that data to come to conclusions on what the projectiles will do on tissue?
Can we agree that the information is limited, but not totally useless? For example, when viewing this forum before the crash, I saw a lot of guys in the hunting thread say that they would never use the Nosler 100gr Ballistic Tips for hunting except on varmints, because it is basically explosive on tissue. Guess what my next purchase was? After I do some testing with the Nosler 100gr BT on certain mediums, it just might be in my bedside gun if I can reliably say that I have a significantly reduced capacity to endanger anyone beyond the intended target in a home defense scenario. Since the US uses the Hague guidelines, despite our signatory status, the Nosler BT is out of the question as far as I understand it.
Regarding rear weight bias projectiles such as the 7N6 (5.45x39mm original production), 7N10, 7N22, and 7N24, there are differences in the shape of the armor penetrator, but they all have a hollow nose cavity. The Russian guys I have spoken with who actually have used and do use AK74-based weapons in the Caucasus region said they had some problems with the 7N6 exhibiting radical ricochet characteristics that were lethal to friendlies, especially when supporting troops who were assaulting a building entry point, and the RPK-74 gunners and riflemen would lay down fire in front of the guys getting ready to go in. This resulted in the development of the 7N10 and higher projectiles that use a tungsten rod versus a sectional steel/lead core.
This is the design that interests me the most, and could be great for a barrier blind/tissue expansive device. Now find someone to manufacture such a bullet, test the prototypes, decide if it's worth pursuing, and move from there. If such a projectile could demonstrate a better of both worlds performance over M855, Mk262, and AP even, that would gain the military's attention, provided it could be done at reasonable costs.
LRRPF52