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Ukraine
#52
montana Wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyUhYzDWj_0

Guys, let me preface this by saying I’m not trying to be subtractively-argumentative. It’s just painful to see people make statements and videos about things they aren’t even remotely familiar with.

I see this as an example of someone who literally doesn’t even know the basic geography of the area, let alone any of the important events, after “doing a deep dive”.

If you’re looking for a clean and tidy box you can wrap this subject up with, it just isn’t going to be possible.

For starters, Russia didn’t cave in and acquiesce to Ukrainian demands on being able to continue pumping oil through Ukraine.

Russia owned the puppet presidents of Ukraine up until 2014, and all the oil barons made out like fat cats while Ukrainian people got the shaft.

They had a famous gas dispute in 2009 where Russia turned off the gas to Ukraine in the middle of the winter (January 1st, 2009) as a way to bully Ukraine into submission. I was in Russia from late 2008-early 2009 when that all went down. It was big news in Europe at the time. In the Russian propaganda “news”, it was those dirty Ukrainians who didn’t pay their bills. In the European news, it was grandmas freezing in Ukraine. There was a big deal in EU over it, because the Germans and other Central Europeans were worried about where they were going to get their heating from that winter.

[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn-attachments.timesof...f=1&nofb=1]

Yanukovych signed onto the Russian Economic union with CIS states (many of the former Soviet Union), moving Ukraine away from where they wanted to go with closer ties to the EU, while 79% of the Ukrainian people wanted more trade with the EU and to decouple from Russia so they wouldn’t be under Russian control anymore.

Yanukovych also bent over for Putin on Crimea, energy deals, sea ports, and almost anything Putin wanted. He even tried to push the Russian language as officially-recognized in Ukraine, which is a hot button issue with Ukrainians and vehemently opposed by the majority.

The voters literally threw Yanukovych out with 4 months of protest with Euromaiden, and Russian Spetnaz evacuated him through Kharkiv, from where he fled to Russia back to Putin.

If you really want to become informed on what is going on there, you will need to study:

Detailed geography of the region for starters. I recommend seterra online geography games, private intelligence satellite imagery if you’re interested in the order of battle of the current invasion, roads, Dneiper and Dneister rivers, the arable farmland, sea ports, granaries, oil routes, etc.

[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.britannica.com%2F68...f=1&nofb=1]

[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn1.matadornetwork.com...f=1&nofb=1]

900 years of Kievan Rus and Muscovite Prince rivalry

The Holodomor (eyewitness accounts Ukrainian genocide history)

Ukrainian exploitation during the Soviet Times (Russian domination story as usual)

Dissolution of the Soviet Union

Collapse of the former Soviet State economies

Nunn-Lugar bailout and nuclear security effort

Reaction of the Soviet hard-liners and the rise of Putin

Oil barons / Oligarchs

Rise of the European Union in the 1990s

Ukrainian independence movements post-collapse

Putin’s puppets, with Ukraine being priority #1 due to all the oil, sea ports, Krim (Crimea), farmland

Putin’s puppet Obama WH meddling in Ukraine with Vice President Biden (long time Soviet asset) at the helm.

Euromaidan 2013-2014 and the ousting of Yanukovych

Election meddling from Russia and the Russian sabotage forces

Russian false flags in Donbas attacking ethnic Russians to justify “peace-keeping”

Russian invasion of Eastern Ukraine in 2014

[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fs-media-cache-ak0.pinim...f=1&nofb=1]

Continued Ukrainian independence movements as Russia establishes more invasion launch points along the borders

Russian invasion in February 2022

That’s the summary if you really want one.
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Messages In This Thread
Ukraine - by LR1955 - 02-27-2022, 11:48 PM
Ukraine - by biodsl - 02-28-2022, 12:54 AM
Ukraine - by Bigs28 - 02-28-2022, 01:01 AM
Ukraine - by montana - 02-28-2022, 02:39 AM
Ukraine - by biodsl - 02-28-2022, 02:58 AM
Ukraine - by biodsl - 02-28-2022, 03:02 AM
Ukraine - by montana - 02-28-2022, 04:00 AM
Ukraine - by 41bear - 02-28-2022, 09:41 AM
Ukraine - by grayfox - 02-28-2022, 12:00 PM
Ukraine - by TomSawyerNW - 02-28-2022, 03:19 PM
Ukraine - by LRRPF52 - 03-01-2022, 04:44 PM
Ukraine - by LRRPF52 - 03-01-2022, 04:50 PM
Ukraine - by LRRPF52 - 03-02-2022, 02:06 AM
Ukraine - by Zeneffect - 03-02-2022, 03:15 AM
Ukraine - by Zeneffect - 03-02-2022, 05:26 AM
Ukraine - by Double Naught Spy - 03-02-2022, 06:04 PM
Ukraine - by just_john - 03-02-2022, 07:31 PM
Ukraine - by Zeneffect - 03-02-2022, 07:41 PM
Ukraine - by Double Naught Spy - 03-02-2022, 11:20 PM
Ukraine - by LR1955 - 03-02-2022, 11:22 PM
Ukraine - by Bigs28 - 03-03-2022, 12:46 AM
Ukraine - by Zeneffect - 03-03-2022, 01:21 AM
Ukraine - by Double Naught Spy - 03-03-2022, 06:10 AM
Ukraine - by Zeneffect - 03-03-2022, 03:13 PM
Ukraine - by LR1955 - 03-03-2022, 05:12 PM
Ukraine - by BluntForceTrauma - 03-03-2022, 05:45 PM
Ukraine - by myrifle - 03-03-2022, 06:25 PM
Ukraine - by Popeye212 - 03-03-2022, 07:40 PM
Ukraine - by LRRPF52 - 03-03-2022, 07:54 PM
Ukraine - by LR1955 - 03-03-2022, 07:59 PM
Ukraine - by LRRPF52 - 03-03-2022, 08:02 PM
Ukraine - by MrDraco - 03-03-2022, 08:17 PM
Ukraine - by jasper2408 - 03-03-2022, 08:35 PM
Ukraine - by Bjorn - 03-03-2022, 09:26 PM
Ukraine - by Bjorn - 03-03-2022, 09:29 PM
Ukraine - by LRRPF52 - 03-03-2022, 09:33 PM
Ukraine - by montana - 03-03-2022, 10:01 PM
Ukraine - by LRRPF52 - 03-03-2022, 10:04 PM
Ukraine - by montana - 03-03-2022, 10:54 PM
Ukraine - by BluntForceTrauma - 03-03-2022, 11:32 PM
Ukraine - by grayfox - 03-04-2022, 02:44 PM
Ukraine - by LRRPF52 - 03-04-2022, 05:54 PM
Ukraine - by LR1955 - 03-04-2022, 05:59 PM
Ukraine - by LRRPF52 - 03-04-2022, 06:50 PM
Ukraine - by montana - 03-04-2022, 07:27 PM
Ukraine - by Big_John - 03-04-2022, 07:50 PM
Ukraine - by grayfox - 03-04-2022, 09:00 PM
Ukraine - by grayfox - 03-04-2022, 09:08 PM
Ukraine - by montana - 03-05-2022, 06:35 AM
Ukraine - by Bjorn - 03-05-2022, 04:35 PM
Ukraine - by BluntForceTrauma - 03-05-2022, 06:50 PM
Ukraine - by LRRPF52 - 03-05-2022, 08:55 PM
Ukraine - by BluntForceTrauma - 03-06-2022, 02:00 AM
Ukraine - by montana - 03-06-2022, 02:24 AM
Ukraine - by LRRPF52 - 03-06-2022, 03:24 AM
Ukraine - by LRRPF52 - 03-06-2022, 03:28 AM
Ukraine - by SDW - 03-12-2022, 11:35 PM
Ukraine - by grayfox - 03-12-2022, 11:48 PM
Ukraine - by Klem - 03-13-2022, 01:17 AM
Ukraine - by SDW - 03-13-2022, 01:51 PM
Ukraine - by dammitman - 03-13-2022, 03:32 PM
Ukraine - by Klem - 03-13-2022, 10:32 PM
Ukraine - by LR1955 - 03-14-2022, 12:22 AM

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