SOCOM Looking at .260 Rem and 6.5 Creedmoor Sniper Systems

[JASmith]

The other difference is that the Creedmoor can digest bullets with longer noses within the magazine length constraints.

This becomes important when trying to minimize drift at long ranges.

[Kilco]

The other difference is that the Creedmoor can digest bullets with longer noses within the magazine length constraints.

This becomes important when trying to minimize drift at long ranges.

In the big picture this is true. However in my 260 SASS I've yet to find a projectile that was too long to run at mag length.

142 SMK, 143 ELD-X AND 147 ELD-M can all be loaded to 2.800 and perform wonderfully.

Maybe the new 150 SMK will only be usable in a Creedmoor gas gun, but I won't know till I get my hands on some.

We will see in bolt guns if the heavier 147 and 150gr projectiles start showing favor towards the 260 Rem case and the oh so slightly higher capacity.

[LRRPF52]

Buddy of mine is getting 2800fps with 150gr SMK with 26" 7.5 twist 6.5 Creedmoor.

G7 BC is .355.....

This thread is about a military application of the cartridges, specifically within SOCOM.

I have also seen that I could load all of the 140gr class target bullets in my .260 Rem gasser before the 143 ELD-X, 147 ELD-M, and now 150gr SMK came out.

I think a 130gr HPBT and 121-122gr 855A1 style projectile make a lot of sense for the military 6.5mm application from larger case capacities.

It will be interesting to see if there is any fleet data to support one shoulder angle over another.

I originally thought 6.5CM would have more feeding issues, but have not seen that so far in my courses, but while somewhat wide and deep, it is still anecdotal evidence.

I've not had feeding issues with the .260 Remington so far.

[BluntForceTrauma]

Just saw video from Barrett showing off their shortened M240 — chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor (start at 9:20). "It performs beautifully." Stan? Perhaps fears of a 30° shoulder on a military small arm are overblown? :o

[stanc]

Just saw video from Barrett showing off their shortened M240 — chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor (start at 9:20). "It performs beautifully." Stan? Perhaps fears of a 30° shoulder on a military small arm are overblown? :o

You could be right, John. The 7.5 Swiss is very close, with a 28° shoulder. Apparently worked fine in belt-fed machine guns and select-fire battle rifles.



I wish I could've found something definitive on why the shoulder angle was reduced during 7.62 NATO development.
Army Ordnance clearly recognized the advantages of a 30° shoulder, and it was changed only after years of testing.



P.S. Regarding the statement that 6.5 Creedmoor "performs beautifully" in the Barrett M240: It must be true, because gun makers never exaggerate.

[LRRPF52]

Just saw video from Barrett showing off their shortened M240 — chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor (start at 9:20). "It performs beautifully." Stan? Perhaps fears of a 30° shoulder on a military small arm are overblown? :o

The Swiss had the 7.5x55 Schmidt & Rubin with a 27˚45' shoulder that runs in the SIG 510 service rifle just fine.

As long as the system is designed with the feed angles to work with the cartridge dimensions, a self-loading firearm can function with boring repeatability.

ETA: Beat

[stanc]

As long as the system is designed with the feed angles to work with the cartridge dimensions, a self-loading firearm can function with boring repeatability.

So, perhaps the M14 feed geometry wasn't quite compatible with the original 30° shoulder of the T65 cartridge, and that's why the angle was reduced?

[LRRPF52]

So, perhaps the M14 feed geometry wasn't quite compatible with the original 30° shoulder of the T65 cartridge, and that's why the angle was reduced?

One thing I noticed at SHOT was that Springfield introduced a 6.5 Creedmoor M1A. I also saw a company making left-handed M1As, which was interesting.

[video=youtube;ZmjOQ3EOeho]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmjOQ3EOeho[/video]

[stanc]

One thing I noticed at SHOT was the Springfield introduced a 6.5 Creedmoor M1A.

So my favorite rifle is now available in 6.5mm? That's very cool.

Also very sad, because it's unlikely I'll ever be able to have one.

[SharpD0g]

OK, well, I do hope the Army can produce a new design this time. IMHO this is another boondoggle like the OICW, Future Combat System, Crusader, The Navy's Zumwalt (DDX), CGX, etc. The DOD acquisition process seems to be mostly pie-in-the-sky system with an occasional good idea like the Army's XM17 or the Marines M27.

Personally I think the DOD would be well advised to use the 6.5G (replacing 5.56) and possibly the 6.5C (replacing the .308 for some applications) than going for telscopic-cased ammo from the get-go.

[Popeye212]

260 and 6.5 are basically the same....why test 2 rounds that are basically identical.....

They are not that close Remington developed the .260 as hunting round the Creedmoor was developed for long range competition. AT least from what I read and the Creedmoor accepts heavier bullets without using compressed loads.

[Popeye212]

Nancy Pelosi and Feinstein nightmare ANOTHER ASSAULT RIFLE. How will they stand the strain...

[dobrodan]

http://soldiersystems.net/2018/03/23/uss...ts-6-5-cm/

6.5 Creedmoor adopted.

[BluntForceTrauma]

Couldn't have happened to a nicer cartridge.

Money quote from report: "[FONT=&quot]As both cartridges were similarly accurate and reliable, the determining factor for selection of 65CM would end up being trade space. The prevailing attitude is that there was more room with the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]65CM[/FONT][FONT=&quot] to further develop projectiles and loads."[/FONT]

[stanc]

Looking forward to seeing the SOCOM Assault Machine Gun in 6.5 CM.

[tangodown]

So what's wrong with BAD News AR in 300 win mag or 300 ultra? They even make a 338 Lupua in a AR platform.

[jwynn481]

im not buying the 260 is too expensive to shoot, i have one in AR10 and ammo is 20-25$ for hornady match ammo which according to midwayusa is the same price as 6.5cm hornady match ammo. I believe it comes down to personal preference. In my opinion the creedmoor is like crossfit, once you try it you can't stop talking about it.

[LR1955]

im not buying the 260 is too expensive to shoot, i have one in AR10 and ammo is 20-25$ for hornady match ammo which according to midwayusa is the same price as 6.5cm hornady match ammo. I believe it comes down to personal preference. In my opinion the creedmoor is like crossfit, once you try it you can't stop talking about it.

jw:

Where did you get the idea that a decision was made based on cost? I didn't see anything in the link about cost.

LR55

[jwynn481]

I didn’t think the decision was based on cost. Having read some previous posts talking about the cost of 260rem being too high this was my rebuttal. The CM gives you more options due to the case being shorter, makes sense why it was chosen.

[LR1955]

I didn’t think the decision was based on cost. Having read some previous posts talking about the cost of 260rem being too high this was my rebuttal. The CM gives you more options due to the case being shorter, makes sense why it was chosen.

jw:

Rog -- got it and thanks. Was wondering if I had missed something.

LR55