The truth !

[LR1955]

Just because immoral behavior was common in the 1790s, does not make the Founders' behavior less immoral.

Or, as that eminent philosopher Stan Crist put it a quarter of a century ago, "Two Wongs don't make a Wright."

Stan:

You are judging the morality and ethics of 17th century America based on today's moral and ethical standards?

LR55

[JASmith]

Stan:

You are judging the morality and ethics of 17th century America based on today's moral and ethical standards?

LR55

Why not? It certainly furthers arguments and chaos while not particularly helping insight.

Is this what we want from the grendel forum?

[montana]

Why not? It certainly furthers arguments and chaos while not particularly helping insight.

Is this what we want from the grendel forum?

+1. I love a good debate, but being constantly barraged about the evils of the US without any historical back ground is divisive at best. It is through mistakes we learn the most and the US has a wonderful history of making things right. Freedom had to start somewhere and no nation did it better than the US. https://www.prageru.com/video/is-gun-ownership-a-right/

[stanc]

Stan: You are judging the morality and ethics of 17th century America based on today's moral and ethical standards?

KSWT was judging today's moral standards based on the morality of the Founders, and said that "we've deteriorated" since then. Considering what was legal and widely practiced in the Founders' time, their moral standards were far from superior to today's.

If one wishes to argue that moral standards are relative, varying with time and place, I would agree. Although that argument contradicts the idea that moral standards come "from a higher power" and are absolute, unchanging.

[stanc]

https://www.prageru.com/video/is-gun-ownership-a-right/

So many errors in that video...

[montana]

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[stanc]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]14664[/ATTACH]

That ironically amusing -- or amusingly ironic -- coming from a person who's been an active participant in these internet arguments.

[stanc]

https://www.prageru.com/video/is-gun-ownership-a-right/

Some major errors in that video:

"The term 'militia' does not refer to a National Guard type group." - FALSE. That's precisely what "a well regulated Militia" refers to: The official military force organized and maintained by each State. The original State militias were the equivalent of today's National Guard.

"In the 1790s, 'State' wasn't used to mean an an individual State like New York, etc..." - FALSE. "State" most definitely was used to mean an individual State, both throughout the Constitution, as well as in the 6th and 10th Amendments. And, since one of the purposes of the militia was to give individual States the capability to oppose the standing army maintained by the federal government, it is clear that the "State" in the 2nd Amendment -- as in the 6th and 10th -- does in fact refer to the individual States.

[LR1955]

KSWT was judging today's moral standards based on the morality of the Founders, and said that "we've deteriorated" since then. Considering what was legal and widely practiced in the Founders' time, their moral standards were far from superior to today's.

If one wishes to argue that moral standards are relative, varying with time and place, I would agree. Although that argument contradicts the idea that moral standards come "from a higher power" and are absolute, unchanging.

Not what I asked.

Simple question.

Are you judging the morality and ethics of 17th Century America based on today's moral and ethical standards?

LR55

[montana]

That ironically amusing -- or amusingly ironic -- coming from a person who's been an active participant in these internet arguments.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]14665[/ATTACH]

[stanc]

Not what I asked.

Simple question.

Are you judging the morality and ethics of 17th Century America based on today's moral and ethical standards?

I was doing the same thing that KSWT did: Comparing 18th Century and 21st Century moral standards.

If you wish to consider that to be "judging," then yes, KSWT and I were judging one based on the other.

[LR1955]

For now this thread is locked.

LR55