giant groups from new Mini

[garyrapp55]

I put a barreled action in Boyd's Provarmint. Outer Impact base, Warne Maxima Rings, SWFA 3-15x42. It's shooting an embarrassingly large group. Base and rings were torqued with Loctite. Scope was great on previous rifle. I didn't have a torque wrench in the field but did tinker with action screws after about 40 rounds, no change. I rechecked free float, all good. I did the finger between forearm and barrel then loosen front action screw to check for action binding, no problem. I cleaned the bore prior as it was brand new. I know it takes some fouling to really tighten groups with a squeaky clean barrel but I've got 60 rounds down this and still it shoots like chit. What do I do now?

[grayfox]

What ammo? brand and bullet type?
If it's Hornady 123sst custom, that ammo is finicky as to which barrel it likes.
Do you have a chrony to get some MV readings?
I had a howa in a pro varmint, for some it's a nice setup but for me it seemed -- well, blocky for me to hold.
Not necessarily bad, mind you, just didn't seem to work well for me.

But I'd look at your ammo.

Second, how's the trigger? from the factory it seemed a bit heavy and a little gritty to me, I replaced mine with a timney but there's also some spring changeouts or tweaking you could try if you want.

Next, what about the bottom metal -- oops! plastic. That plastic has been known to be problems cause if you torque it to mfr spec you'll probably split it.
There's a DIP inc bottom metal you can do, or hokeypokey kid on here has one also. Having a true metal bottom allows consistent torque.
Also, there are a couple of Bdl-type bottom metal pieces on here that might do the same for you.
Following that, might want to think about bedding it... I wound up bedding mine and it did help.

[garyrapp55]

Hornady 123 BTHP
No Chrono
I lowered the pull of the trigger a little. Mine is not gritty but not perfect. Not bad at all for a factory trigger. I may change springs in the future but for now it's plenty good.
Still has bottom plastic. Plan to upgrade to DIP bottom metal or Jefferson Outdoors before I pillar and glass bed.
I still need to get powder and dies so I can load for it but I've never had a rifle shoot so poorly. I suppose it could be the ammo.

I know it varies but what is typical count for proper copper fouling?

[grayfox]

Lots of theories on that. I'm of the opinion that it's not so much the "fouling" as it is the "smoothing" of the inner surfaces. Friction is what causes resistance to bullet being pushed through the pipe.
One thing I did was to polish the inside of barrel with JB bore paste, 2 or 3 swabs of it on my cleaning patches back and forth to smooth and polish the interior. After cleaning it with your favorite bore cleaner that is.
It's a rack grade barrel, a bit better than some but not a Lilja or Bartlein, so it's gonna be what it's gonna be.

By shooting awful, what's your MOA -- at 100 yds?

Do a search on here for 120 the SMK and a load of XBR powder (IIRC), that's a very forgiving bullet and ~28 grs give or take always shoots well, according to several of the pro's on here. Just dbl check the powder and load but use that bullet.

I also use the Hornady 123 Eldm match ammo (the original Hornady Black Match), or maybe the federal 130 bergers... those are good ones and pretty accurate across the board, as my breakins. Try these and see what they do in your barrel.

60 rounds should be sufficient for a decent break in, again lots of theories on that and what is considered "adequate" or "proper". The big thing I try to do with my break in is to allow the barrel to heat up somewhat, just to let metal grain of the steel settle in. Not red hot, but 1 shot, clean, wait 1 minute, 1 shot repeat... for 10-20 rounds. I think it makes for less barrel walking during heatups... but then I don't heat up my guns much anyway. Always take care of your equipment and don't over-stress it, my first Eng Offcr would tell us.

[FLshooter]

Pretty much what grayfox said.
I would run a nylon brush,then patches through it till they come out clean.Then I try different ammo and see what it likes. I had a CZ 527 .223 varmint that shot like crap. I was about to give up on it. Finally I started using 52 g SMK bullets and benchmark powder which I discovered it liked.Worked up the right load. Now it’s one of the rifles I reach for most.

[FloorPoor]

How big is "giant"?

[JSH]

Take a hard look at the crown.
The last Boyd’s stock I got had a lot of whiskers and need fitting. Took me a couple of evenings to get it where it was good. They are not a true drop in and go. I would about bet it is a fitting issue.

I put a 223 Mini with a pencil barrel in a chassis. It shot well for the first 5-7 shots. Started vertical stringing. Let it cool down for a while and it came right back to the original group. Make a good walking rig but sure no good for colony varmints.

[NugginFutz]

I bought and sold a mini in the same month, 6-7 years ago. That model was one made by Ruger after they started making their own barrels for the mini. I had desired one from the day I'd first seen one of those beauties in the early '70s, so it pained me to let it go.

I had tried several varieties of hand loads and factory ammo, but could never get it to settle down enough to make it useful at the PD hunts I'd envisioned using it for.

To paraphrase several people, they make a "Good Truck Gun", but nothing that will put down varmints in any real volume or distance.

[Randy99CL]

I bought and sold a mini in the same month, 6-7 years ago. That model was one made by Ruger after they started making their own barrels for the mini. I had desired one from the day I'd first seen one of those beauties in the early '70s, so it pained me to let it go.

I had tried several varieties of hand loads and factory ammo, but could never get it to settle down enough to make it useful at the PD hunts I'd envisioned using it for.

To paraphrase several people, they make a "Good Truck Gun", but nothing that will put down varmints in any real volume or distance.

We talkin' Mini-14?
Yes I drooled over them when they first came out and eventually bought a new one in the mid '70s. I was stationed overseas (with great Navy Exchange prices) and bought a couple of Ruger M77Rs and Vs at the same time. The bolt guns were incredibly accurate and made the 2-3 MOA Mini more disappointing.
As some famous writer said, "there's nothing more useless than an inaccurate rifle" and I sold it.
Gave them a second chance when the Ranch model arrived in the mid-80s but that one was just as inaccurate as the first. Too bad.
Local gun shop always has used Minis at decent prices but I know that none are accurate enough for me.

[NugginFutz]

We talkin' Mini-14?
Yes I drooled over them when they first came out and eventually bought a new one in the mid '70s. I was stationed overseas (with great Navy Exchange prices) and bought a couple of Ruger M77Rs and Vs at the same time. The bolt guns were incredibly accurate and made the 2-3 MOA Mini more disappointing.
As some famous writer said, "there's nothing more useless than an inaccurate rifle" and I sold it.
Gave them a second chance when the Ranch model arrived in the mid-80s but that one was just as inaccurate as the first. Too bad.
Local gun shop always has used Minis at decent prices but I know that none are accurate enough for me.

Yeah - mini-14. I soooo wanted it to work out. Ron Peterson's always got a few.

If the OP meant something else, then forgive me for taking this thread down a nostalgic rabbit hole.

[FloorPoor]

We talkin' Mini-14?

A Mini-14 stainless steel "ranch rifle" I bought in the late 90's was absolutely the most inaccurate rifle I've ever owned or handled. It was difficult to get three shots on paper at 100yds. 20 moa was the average group size with lots of different ammo. And the brass that wasn't flung into who knows where and was actually recovered was so badly dented it would crease in the sizing die. Garbage grade rifle.


The Mini-14 was a cool concept for a rifle, but terribly executed.

[Javman]

How big is "giant"?

^^^This

[garyrapp55]

How big is "giant"?

5 inches

[Harpoon1]

5 inches

Send it back as defective.

If you don’t want to do that, recrown it and see what happens.

5” definitely sucks but I had a PSA 6.5 Grendel pistol barrel that wouldn’t hold “12 MOA”.

[FloorPoor]

5 inches

Yikes!

[biodsl]

The Mini-14 was a cool concept for a rifle, but terribly executed.

I had an early '80's Mini-14 that shot groups the size of pie plates at 100 yard. A damned shame because the rifle was so handy and slim with 5 round mag. I've never quite understood how it is that they shot so poorly.

[Yendor6.5]

The first Ruger Mini 14 that I had was a great shooter. It'd occasionally put 5, 53 grain MBTHPs under an inch at 100.

The second one shot 10" groups at 100 yards. The gas block was clamped down so hard, it distorted that pencil barrel. I sent it back to Ruger, with a letter telling them they needed to rebarrel it. They replaced the bolt! I didn't buy another Ruger for a long time after that. As far as gas guns go, the sun rises and sets on the AR platform.

My first Howa 1500 Mini was a stinker. It shot 3" groups at 100yards. I shot Master Class back when I was competing. On Sept 9, 2018 I made the initial phone call. I finally got a replacement barreled action March 6 2019. The replacement barreled action did not have the scope mount base, but it did have a threaded barrel. The new barreled action has a thicker recoil lug. The new one will put 3 shots under .4" at 100 occasionally. At 450 yards it put the first 4 shots aprox 3.5". Either the wind or I blew the last shot, making it a 5 inches.

If your Howa Mini 1500 isn't shooting well. Send it back. I did. Glad I did.

[garyrapp55]

On Sept 9, 2018 I made the initial phone call. I finally got a replacement barreled action March 6 2019. If your Howa Mini 1500 isn't shooting well. Send it back. I did. Glad I did.

I assume you contacted Legacy customer service?

[Flipt86]

If your Howa Mini 1500 isn't shooting well. Send it back. I did. Glad I did.

Agreed, send it back.
My very first 5 shot group with factory Hornady ammo (Hornady Custom 123gr SST) printed at .78" @ 100 yds. That was with 8 rounds total fired out of the gun, no cleaning in-between rounds, first 3 were sighters. Completely factory rifle, no mods.

Just recently shot a .28" 4 shot group using the 120gr SMK and 27.5gr of 8208XBR. I pulled the 5th shot, but it was still a .5" group overall.
The only thing I had done to it prior to shooting this group was to add the DIP bottom metal.

[Msalm]

Did you bed the rifle in the stock? If not that would be my first step. I still have 9 Howa mini’s in everything from 20 Grendel to 7.62x39 and every one of them (factory or custom barrel) shoots about MOA at the worse. My bet is stock fit/bedding.