New Marine Corps weapon to replace SAW

[LRRPF52]

What you're overlooking is that war is a game.

You sound like a friend of mine, who advocates replacing manned combat aircraft with UAVs. What about all the guys who really want to be warriors?

No, I am making the point that war IS a deadly game. I just feel that warriors should have better tools to do it with. Since I want ground-mobility robots to be piloted, I'm having a hard time seeing how I sound like an advocate for UAV's to replace combat aircraft. The manned robot concept gives warriors a truly over-matched capability that would be awesome to weild as a deterrent, with periodic displays for doubters.

[LRRPF52]

Imagine this with integrated indirect fire, and rotary cannon weapons. Thermobaric warhead missiles and a long-range flame-thrower would be appropriate as well.

http://tektonten.blogspot.com/2010/04/me...craft.html

The biggest issue I see is that no self-respecting camouflaged welfare warrior in a command position will allow anyone to sign these things out of the....robopool. They will, however, have zero problems with making sure soldiers are tasked with doing maintenance and command inspection preparations in the robopool.

With no streets to limit maneuver like with tanks, imagine if a Fire Team went rogue.

"Sarge. We disconnected the the primary and hidden command override links in our robosteeds, and the Ammunition Supply Point doesn't know how to detect our hack of their guard bots. Project mahem is ready for kick-off! We've even isntalled the driver's kegs with dual channel camelbak valves, right next to the 25 mike-mike drum bulkhead, loaded with plenty of HEDP and API from last month's Platoon Combined Live-Fire Exercise, and we got the code from the ANCD for the Commander's authority to engage active camouflage."

[stanc]

Apparently I misunderstood.

When you talked about a robot, I thought you meant something like the man-size "T-800 Terminator," except remotely-operated by a soldier safely seated in an air-conditioned office far from the fighting.

I see you actually are discussing a much larger, manned armored combat vehicle that walks on legs.



ETA: I doubt the Afghans will fear much such legged vehicles. RPGs and IEDs, ya know. :eek:

[LRRPF52]

I'm thinking about some pretty revolutionary "leaps" in maneuverability. Combine them with night, and RPG's pose no real threat. IED's rely on known routes, which is the whole point of this type of technology that will render enemy ambushes worthless, and put them totally on the defense.

You've seen the videos of guys running around with exo-skeleton legs on, right. Now imagine that concept enlarged to facilitate serious weapons platforms. I mean, the soldiers were running up and down steep rocky mountain tops like it was fun, with minimal effort. With advances in armor, lightweight, high-strength materials, and anthropomorphic electronically controlled appendages, the pieces are there. Place an armored tub on it for the warrior, throw in an A/C system, integrated commo suite, LRF targeting with polar-plot JSTARS-type data link, topped off with Mini-gun, munitions launcher, and drum magazines....I see lots of fear.

[stanc]

I'm thinking about some pretty revolutionary "leaps" in maneuverability. Combine them with night, and RPG's pose no real threat. IED's rely on known routes, which is the whole point of this type of technology that will render enemy ambushes worthless, and put them totally on the defense.

Going into and through towns and villages, I think these "individual combat vehicles" will still be channeled into known routes (streets and alleys), and thereby vulnerable to IEDs.

You've seen the videos of guys running around with exo-skeleton legs on, right.

No. The only video I recall seeing previously was the one below, in which the exoskeleton was tethered.

[video=youtube;0hkCcoenLW4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hkCcoenLW4[/video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hkCcoenLW4

After reading your comment, I checked youtube and found what appears to be the video you noted.

[video=youtube;y1CeBOWm67A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1CeBOWm67A[/video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1CeBOWm67A

ETA: I'd love to give the HULC a "test drive" to see for myself how well it works.

Now imagine that concept enlarged to facilitate serious weapons platforms. With advances in armor, lightweight, high-strength materials, and anthropomorphic electronically controlled appendages, the pieces are there. Place an armored tub on it for the warrior, throw in an A/C system, integrated commo suite, LRF targeting with polar-plot JSTARS-type data link, topped off with Mini-gun, munitions launcher, and drum magazines....I see lots of fear.

I fear you're a tad optimistic. But even if you're right about Afghan insurgent reaction, it looks to me like a viable, bipedal, individual combat vehicle is a very long way in the future.

[video=youtube;xPx-bCwHGCc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPx-bCwHGCc[/video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPx-bCwHGCc

[Variable]

Weyland-Yutani and Blue Sun corporate sponsorships should speed up the process...

[txgunner00]

I would have loved to have one of those HULCs on the 25 mile humps we had to do.


LMAO at that landwalker video. A song that my daughters listen to comes to mind... "every day I'm shufflin'". The reaction of the crowd is classic Japanese. Ooooooo!

[LRRPF52]

I see smart rocket launchers, an armored cockpit, and articulating legs ready to handle crazy terrain. There are developments in armor right now that could make these things so light, it's ridiculous.

[txgunner00]

It would be great while it lasted, but for every advancement in armor there is another to defeat it. It will be like the knights in plate armor then along came steel tipped arrows. I think we should all go back to slugging it out bare fisted in open fields.

[bwaites]

It would be great while it lasted, but for every advancement in armor there is another to defeat it. It will be like the knights in plate armor then along came steel tipped arrows. I think we should all go back to slugging it out bare fisted in open fields.

Naw, we breed to fast! Can't kill enough of us fast enough to not overwhelm the resource pool with bare fists!

[Buck2732]

Naw, we breed to fast! Can't kill enough of us fast enough to not overwhelm the resource pool with bare fists!

Any way some one would only cheat and use a stone or something :-) you know that rules are made to be broken.

[Variable]

I'll cheat and bring a Grendel!

[hm2 clark]

Hearts and minds? Even my 15 y/o daughter knows that when you grab them by their balls, their hearts and minds will follow!

[LRRPF52]

Hearts and minds? Even my 15 y/o daughter knows that when you grab them by their balls, their hearts and minds will follow!

They will actually love you in the third wolrd when you brutalize a few miscreants in front of everyone else. They are always yearning for Alpha males to crack skulls and regulate the herd-totally different mindset than America.

[bwaites]

They will actually love you in the third wolrd when you brutalize a few miscreants in front of everyone else. They are always yearning for Alpha males to crack skulls and regulate the herd-totally different mindset than America.

Not so sure that most Americans aren't going there as well, too many seem just fine with Czars and Presidents who think that the Constitution doesn't exist!

[LRRPF52]

Back on blasters. I recently had the opportunity to blast away with a 16" HK416, and it handled totally different than the 10" HK416. It wasn't too bad, actually. Recoil impulse is still different than a DI gun, but it was much smoother, at least with the ammo I was shooting. I was able to keep a magazine of ammo within a 4" circle as fast as I could pull the trigger at 7m, standing.

I still prefer the recoil impulse of the DI AR15, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings too much if the longer-barrel 416 was all I had to choose from. Because of magazine limitations, it still is an inappropriate choice for an Auto Rifleman weapon.

I also had a chance to blast away with a Surefire 60rd mag, and it malf'd the 1st time I have shot with one. Here's my shocked face.....

[Michael]

LRRPF52 - sorry you had that experience w/ the surefire mag. I was given the opportunity to test some a while back - pulled 4 out of a box (shipped to buddy at CLNC for evaluation), loaded them up with a variety of ammo (x2, first mag let set overnight, MilSpec 5.56, tracer, Bear and foreign mil surplus, total 480rds fired) and had no issues w/ exception of the bolt not locking to the rear on two of the magazines when empty. My spin? Not as good as P-Mags, but as good as majority of USGI mags I have been issued.

[LRRPF52]

Having read a few reviews of the Surefire 60rd mag, I noticed other shooters saying they have experienced malfs as well, including the ill-fated "nose-dive" malf. When that happens, you're totally screwed. There is also video of a guy in competition blasting away from stage-to-stage, until his SF60 mag craps the bed on him. He attempts to correct the malf, and it only gets worse, so he literally tosses it over his shoulder and goes to a standard magazine.

[video=youtube;EgplvO6SncA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgplvO6SncA[/video]

Here's another:

[video=youtube;NS6L5uSyAmo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS6L5uSyAmo[/video]

My scepticism of any "coffin" or quad-stack magazine is based on the experiences the Finns had with them in the Konepistooli Kp31 SMG. Basically, they were banned from use on the war front due to their propensity for having FTFeed issues.

Magpul has also submitted patents for a quad-stack magazine, but I have not seen it yet on the market. US Palm has them for the AK, and I saw them at SHOT, but have yet to test them. They claimed theirs works, so we'll see.

As for me, I would personally choose not to use such a mag if my life or competitive rating depended on it. I love Surefire products, but I believe this one is a potential for major heartache if issued to soldiers. I really wish they would work like other mags do. My position is solidified by the fact the one and only time I have shot the SF60, it had a FTFeed malf.

[usmc1371]

if you want a coffin mag. just get a belt fed grendel.

[stanc]

just get a belt fed grendel.

Ah, if only that mythical beast actually existed...