Value of the 2A Sub Forum on 6.5 Grendel Forum

[LRRPF52]

In light of how the 2A sub-forum is going, I wanted to take a poll on its value to the site.

What we've seen over the years is that any 2A sub forums have become a major distraction from the technical nature of the forum, requiring the most moderation effort to regulate and police, with minimal-to-no benefits, other than the antagonizing of members who would have otherwise been here for gaining, sharing, and discussing technical information specific to the relevant topics associated with 6.5 Grendel.

There are many different backgrounds and ideas representative of a wide membership base, all of whom are interested and invested in 6.5 Grendel to some degree. Arguing over various interpretations of the Constitution, laws, violations of our laws and rights, or pending legislation really distracts from the intent of the forum.

However, there is the aspect of being informed about pending State legislation, but I have yet to see anyone here who doesn't get alerts on that from other sources first.

We've eliminated the 2A forum in the past because it became nothing but a headache to moderate. Hanka allowed it again, as long as it didn't turn into a mud-slinging and personal insult medium again.

I personally am not seeing a lot of value in it relevant to the forum.

[keystone183]

I voted 'Somewhat'.

But in regards to its value, i quite appreciate it. As iron sharpens iron and all that. (I think i stole that from Nugginfutz) I have no doubt its 98% of moderation on here, but i hope it doesn't go away personally!

[37L1]

I have, for the first time, put a member on ignore because of the content of his posts solely in this forum.

Now I'm good whenever I check that forum out.

[41bear]

In light of how the 2A sub-forum is going, I wanted to take a poll on its value to the site.

What we've seen over the years is that any 2A sub forums have become a major distraction from the technical nature of the forum, requiring the most moderation effort to regulate and police, with minimal-to-no benefits, other than the antagonizing of members who would have otherwise been here for gaining, sharing, and discussing technical information specific to the relevant topics associated with 6.5 Grendel.

There are many different backgrounds and ideas representative of a wide membership base, all of whom are interested and invested in 6.5 Grendel to some degree. Arguing over various interpretations of the Constitution, laws, violations of our laws and rights, or pending legislation really distracts from the intent of the forum.

However, there is the aspect of being informed about pending State legislation, but I have yet to see anyone here who doesn't get alerts on that from other sources first.

We've eliminated the 2A forum in the past because it became nothing but a headache to moderate. Hanka allowed it again, as long as it didn't turn into a mud-slinging and personal insult medium again.

I personally am not seeing a lot of value in it relevant to the forum.

I never visited the 2A forum until a few weeks ago and promply fell into the trap of debate until I read that sticky which lead me to reconsider why I come here and decided to no longer participate. There are many other forums where one can jump right into that arena with both feet and gusto. It would not bother me one bit to see that forum disappear forever from this site.

PS thanks for starting this thread.

[mdewitt71]

I come to the 6.5 Grendel forum to talk about 6.5 Grendel.....

I am just glad this forum cleans up the middle school tuff guy playground language, sexist or racist comments I see on other gun forums.

[JASmith]

I had hoped that the 2A forum discssions could lead to actionable suggestions on how to, not just defend, but to proactively strengthen our 2A protections.

Examples: How to get more people shooting; ways to provide more recreational shooting opportunities in the inner city; etc.

These would be beyond the semi-academic discussions of why does the amendment exist and all the subtleties involved.

[grayfox]

I voted "somewhat" on the scale. Of course the technical info, sharing, advice, etc on the Grendel is of paramount importance.

I ardently support and believe in defending the 2A from all attackers, and welcome other viewpoints. However, one poster in particular seems to post only his opinions and typically gets wound up in semantical points, never any corroborating evidence or references, so the weight of that one's statements are of little value to me mostly -- he has a right to post for sure, but when someone can point to historical documentation, court citations, Federalist papers, etc, that's of real value.

I still support the forum with or without this 2A section.

[montana]

I have been fighting the anti-gun crowed for over 40 years now. The ignorance I have seen from the anti's as well as pro gun supporters has astounded me. I have tried to post relevant information to inform pro 2ndA members of current news on relevant topics and give ammunition to use against their so called justified attacks on our gun rights. If the 2A section has not helped to educated and inspire members to battle such attacks, "but has only served to annoy everyone" then there is no need to keep it.

[MrDraco]

When the 2A section was added I was pretty excited, finally a section in which we could discuss the events and on-goings about gun control groups. However it wasn't long till one or two people turned the whole section and every thread made in it their own pissing contest, arguing semantics and definitions, and eventually bullying others into their own beliefs about what should or shouldn't be covered or allowed. Now I only visit that section when a new thread is made and only look at the first post to see why that thread was made, everything after that is the same bs by the same one to two people that is in every other thread.

[StoneHendge]

I voted somewhat. But I barely bother to come to this sub forum anymore. Probably for the same reason that a lot of others don't. My guess is that many won't even see this poll because, although they'd like to participate, they don't bother coming since every thread gets hijacked.

[NugginFutz]

I went with "Not very". It could be more, but as I have already made clear, the last few weeks worth of posts within the 2A have rapidly devolved into arguments over minutia and little else. It has, in no uncertain terms, turned into an arena where one member holds court, while the others play wack-a-mole with his posts. The most recent thread contains no fewer than 12 of the present 29 posts from a single poster. That is over 1/3 of the bandwidth. You could say that he sucks all the oxygen out of the room.

Not the environment I am looking for, otherwise I would post much more frequently in the sub-board.

Sorry, Stan, but I call them like I see them.

[StoneHendge]

I really want to click on "View Post" below:
This message is hidden because stanc is on your ignore list.

At least I have a Vaper to stop me from reaching for a cigarette......

[LRRPF52]

Every time I log into the forum and see threads ending with "Room 2A", I think,

"Ah crap, not this again."

And I love to discuss the 2A. It just seems the normal gentlemanly conduct of the forum takes a back seat for some reason in the 2A sub-forum, and distracts moderation from the technical topics. Most of the threads get locked because people can't seem to follow the Code of Conduct.

[Bigs28]

When i come onto the site i click the "new posts" button to see all the new posts since my last visit. I can literally read the titles and know which ones will be locked without ever going to them. I like the idea of having a 2a section but unfortunately it somehow brings out the bad in people who should all be on the same side being that this is a forum related to guns. People like stanc have gone on my ignore which is really unfortunate because if he actually had something useful to post i would never see it. The way the 2a forum currently is is not beneficial to me personally and seems to just bring about a bunch of negativity.

[LRRPF52]

When i come onto the site i click the "new posts" button to see all the new posts since my last visit. I can literally read the titles and know which ones will be locked without ever going to them.

Yup. I have the same reaction. "That'll get locked any moment now." I can't remember ever locking a thread on this forum either, other than spammers.

[Brett]

I voted somewhat important as I am very interested in current 2A events and actions. I was pleased to find the sub-forum here to help keep myself abreast of this info. I quickly found myself annoyed with the constant, never ending arguments of nothingness from stanc. Perhaps, I should have voted 'not very' as I have learned to not even read replies from stanc, and that is what seems to be dominating this sub-forum.

[NugginFutz]

There's no need to be sorry for calling them like you see them. I call 'em like I see 'em, too.

As for the comment at the end of your first paragraph, I refuse to accept sole responsibility for "sucking the oxygen out of the room." I had plenty of help.

10 of the 12 posts you cite were in response to 10 posts addressing me specifically, otherwise there would've been only 2 posts by me, and the thread would have 9 posts instead of 29.

And here Stan, is an example of what I was referring to. You protest too much, methinks. Nothing I said is explicitly inaccurate, yet you bring the same level of quibbling to my post in this poll that you do in so many of the 2A threads when you chime in on those.

[keystone183]

You blamed me alone for "sucking the oxygen out of the room." How is it quibbling to note that I am not solely responsible?

You mentioned only the 12 posts made by me, and conveniently ignored the fact that they were responses to other people.

Yeah, nothing you said was "explicitly inaccurate." The trouble is, nothing you said was the whole truth.

Yes yes..... You were forced to respond to every one with itemized, line by line retorts.....

[LR1955]

You got to be kidding me.

This thread is here because of the degeneration of every single 2A thread into a bickering contest over semantics or who said what about whom.

And, as predictable as anything on earth, we see two guys bickering about something totally immaterial to the subject.

It is absolutely astounding.

Since LRRP52 started this thread -- it is his decision to lock it -- and for the same reasons we continue to lock the 2A threads.

LR52

[NugginFutz]

You got to be kidding me.

This thread is here because of the degeneration of every single 2A thread into a bickering contest over semantics or who said what about whom.

And, as predictable as anything on earth, we see two guys bickering about something totally immaterial to the subject.

It is absolutely astounding.

Since LRRP52 started this thread -- it is his decision to lock it -- and for the same reasons we continue to lock the 2A threads.

LR52

My apologies to the board. I should have left it at the first post.