Just like the title says. Anyone tried it? I have some for my 6.8 loads and I am curious about what loads I might start with. Think its too fast?
Anyone tried AA2200?
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You might make it work with the lighter bullets, but everyone that I can remember has tried it has migrated to slightly slower powders like X-Terminator.
BUT...we used to think that Benchmark was the same deal and now there are Benchmark loads all the way up to 123 Grain bullets!Last edited by bwaites; 09-21-2011, 08:32 PM.
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Code:Cartridge : 6.5 mm Grendel Bullet : .264, 100, Nosler BalTip 26100 Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.250 inch or 57.15 mm Barrel Length : 20.0 inch or 508.0 mm Powder : Accurate 2200 Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge, incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge. CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads ! Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time % % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms -20.0 74 21.60 2188 1063 29372 5830 88.9 1.294 -18.0 75 22.14 2239 1113 31181 6010 90.0 1.263 -16.0 77 22.68 2290 1164 33098 6186 91.1 1.233 -14.0 79 23.22 2341 1216 35129 6358 92.1 1.204 -12.0 81 23.76 2391 1270 37281 6526 93.0 1.175 -10.0 83 24.30 2442 1324 39563 6688 93.9 1.143 -08.0 85 24.84 2492 1379 41982 6844 94.7 1.112 -06.0 86 25.38 2543 1436 44547 6995 95.5 1.082 ! Near Maximum ! -04.0 88 25.92 2593 1493 47269 7138 96.2 1.054 ! Near Maximum ! -02.0 90 26.46 2643 1551 50158 7275 96.9 1.026 ! Near Maximum ! +00.0 92 27.00 2693 1611 53227 7404 97.4 0.999 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +02.0 94 27.54 2743 1671 56489 7525 98.0 0.973 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +04.0 96 28.08 2793 1732 59959 7638 98.5 0.948 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +06.0 97 28.62 2842 1794 63652 7742 98.9 0.924 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +08.0 99 29.16 2892 1857 67588 7837 99.2 0.901 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +10.0 101 29.70 2941 1920 71785 7923 99.5 0.878 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value: +Ba 92 27.00 2807 1750 62232 7331 99.9 0.935 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value: -Ba 92 27.00 2543 1436 44472 7167 91.6 1.082 ! Near Maximum !
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Not really, according to QL and Accurate Powders.
Code:Cartridge : 6.5 mm Grendel Bullet : .264, 100, Nosler BalTip 26100 Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.250 inch or 57.15 mm Barrel Length : 20.0 inch or 508.0 mm Powder : Accurate 2230 Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge, incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge. CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads ! Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time % % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms -20.0 77 24.00 2157 1033 27091 5995 85.8 1.353 -18.0 79 24.60 2213 1087 28933 6194 87.1 1.316 -16.0 81 25.20 2268 1143 30910 6389 88.4 1.280 -14.0 83 25.80 2324 1199 33032 6580 89.7 1.245 -12.0 85 26.40 2380 1258 35310 6764 90.8 1.211 -10.0 87 27.00 2436 1318 37757 6942 91.9 1.176 -08.0 89 27.60 2493 1380 40387 7113 93.0 1.140 -06.0 91 28.20 2549 1443 43216 7276 94.0 1.105 -04.0 93 28.80 2605 1507 46261 7431 94.9 1.071 ! Near Maximum ! -02.0 95 29.40 2662 1574 49543 7576 95.7 1.039 ! Near Maximum ! +00.0 97 30.00 2719 1641 53084 7711 96.5 1.007 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +02.0 99 30.60 2775 1710 56909 7835 97.2 0.977 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +04.0 101 31.20 2832 1781 61049 7947 97.8 0.948 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +06.0 103 31.80 2889 1853 65535 8048 98.4 0.919 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +08.0 104 32.40 2946 1927 70408 8135 98.9 0.892 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +10.0 106 33.00 3002 2002 75711 8209 99.3 0.865 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value: +Ba 97 30.00 2857 1813 64222 7648 99.7 0.931 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value: -Ba 97 30.00 2536 1429 42498 7394 89.4 1.109
Code:Cartridge : 6.5 mm Grendel Bullet : .264, 100, Nosler BalTip 26100 Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.250 inch or 57.15 mm Barrel Length : 20.0 inch or 508.0 mm Powder : Ramshot X-Terminator Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge, incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge. CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads ! Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time % % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms -20.0 75 23.20 2253 1127 29534 6304 91.3 1.292 -18.0 77 23.78 2306 1180 31466 6492 92.4 1.257 -16.0 79 24.36 2359 1235 33519 6674 93.4 1.224 -14.0 81 24.94 2412 1291 35679 6850 94.4 1.191 -12.0 82 25.52 2464 1349 37957 7019 95.2 1.159 -10.0 84 26.10 2517 1407 40376 7180 96.0 1.127 -08.0 86 26.68 2570 1466 42948 7333 96.8 1.095 -06.0 88 27.26 2622 1526 45683 7477 97.4 1.065 ! Near Maximum ! -04.0 90 27.84 2674 1588 48594 7612 98.0 1.036 ! Near Maximum ! -02.0 92 28.42 2726 1650 51693 7737 98.5 1.008 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +00.0 94 29.00 2777 1713 54993 7852 99.0 0.981 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +02.0 95 29.58 2829 1777 58510 7956 99.3 0.955 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +04.0 97 30.16 2880 1841 62262 8049 99.6 0.930 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +06.0 99 30.74 2930 1907 66266 8130 99.8 0.905 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +08.0 101 31.32 2981 1973 70546 8199 99.9 0.882 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! +10.0 103 31.90 3031 2040 75124 8256 100.0 0.859 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value: +Ba 94 29.00 2891 1856 65385 7607 100.0 0.915 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value: -Ba 94 29.00 2619 1523 44897 7724 94.0 1.069 ! Near Maximum !
Last edited by Guest; 09-21-2011, 11:27 PM.
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This is a great example of why quickload should not be trusted. According the Western Powders, AA2230 and X-Terminator are exactly the same powder. Quickload is showing a huge difference between the two. Also, I have personally been shooting the 100 grain TTSX with 28 grains of AA2230 and I am getting 2795-2800 fps from my 20" barrel. Granted, that is a different and longer bullet than the Nosler but it shows me that quickload is not to be trusted with everything.
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Originally posted by longdayjake View PostThis is a great example of why quickload should not be trusted. According the Western Powders, AA2230 and X-Terminator are exactly the same powder. Quickload is showing a huge difference between the two. Also, I have personally been shooting the 100 grain TTSX with 28 grains of AA2230 and I am getting 2795-2800 fps from my 20" barrel. Granted, that is a different and longer bullet than the Nosler but it shows me that quickload is not to be trusted with everything.
Lets take a look at Ramshot, Accurate and QL data for the 6.5 Grendel shall we.
Ramshot XT
100gr Nosler BT
Ramshot data,20 inch barrel, 29.7gr Max, 2709fps, 51,920psi
QL data, 20 inch barrel, 28.4gr MAX, 2726fps, 51,639psi
I would call this pretty close. In fact I would call this damn close.
AA 2230
100gr Nosler BT
Accurate data, 20 inch barrel, 28.1gr Max, 2636fps, 51,600psi
QL data, 20 inch barrel, 29.7gr Max, 2691fps, 51,304psi
That is not to far off as well, Velocity and pressure are very close and the charge is 1.6gr more than accurate data.
Lets compare Ramshot to Accurate.
100gr Nosler BT
20 inch barrel
Ramshot X-t, 29.7gr Max, 2709fps, 51,920psi
Accurate 2230, 28.1gr Max, 2636fps, 51,600psi
It appears that Ramshot and Accurate differ as much as 1.6gr with the same powder. Just about the same as QL difers.
Now you can take what I posted with whatever sized grain of salt you choose. I was only trying to help. You asked for help with load data for Accurate 2200 in the Grendel. There is none and nobody has tried it. I gave you what I thought would help you start your load development with 2200. Sorry, I won't do it again. Personally I would rather run the numbers with QL and not trust them than ask the internet world to supply me with a Start/Max load for an untested powder. You take care now ya hear.
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So, am I to understand that aa2230 and x-term are not actually the same powder?
In talking with Johan at Western Powders a lot-to-lot variation of 3% is the norm for most powders. That 3% variation can easily account for the discrepancies posted above, as can a whole host of other variables.
As I said, QL is not an absolute, and neither is any pressure tested data.
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I have read on this forum and a few others that you have witnessed QL generated load data that is dangerous and un-safe compared to actual published pressure tested load data. I would appreciate it if you could give me some bullet/powder combos where this has occurred so I can run the numbers myself. I have yet to find this dangerous scenario.
Thanks
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mseric,
That data used to be on the old forum, but I haven't been able to recover much from there. Bill Alexander has repeatedly warned that the data generated by QL for the Grendel can be dangerous, so I have taken him at his word.
I do not know/remember what specific loads caused the abnormal pressures, but I do recall that Bill told me that it was a function of non-linear pressures with certain powders.
It isn't ALL powders, or ALL loads, just some, and since it occurs, you can't be confident in the numbers it creates.
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I do not know/remember what specific loads caused the abnormal pressures, but I do recall that Bill told me that it was a function of non-linear pressures with certain powders.
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I have never claimed that quickload was dangerous. The only thing I have ever said about quickload is that in my experience real life data has been different from what quickload predicts. That could all be combination of elevation, temperature, humidity, barometric pressure, longitude, etc. that differs from where I am to what people post from quickload. I guess what I am trying to say is that quickload does not help me KNOW what will happen. However, I appreciate you running it for me so that I can figure out a starting load for AA2200.Last edited by Guest; 09-23-2011, 03:24 PM.
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Originally posted by mseric View PostIt would be nice if you could find this mysterious load? I have run every powder/bullet combo published by AA, Hodgdon, Accurate, Ramshot VV/Laua and Hornady, QL data is on par or on the conservative side with all of these. Nothing I have found or can generate with QL can achieve what you , Bill A and LJake claim. If this QL generated load truly exists, please take the time to find it, post it and set me straight.
If I remember correctly, it occurs because under some circumstances the powders do not act in a linear fashion, and QL can't predict that.
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I contacted Accurate quite a while back when I first started loading for the Grendel. I asked AA what they recommend for use in the Grendel and they were saying that you should only use 2230. I have always been using 2520 and it works well for me and I live up in Washington State so I don't have to worry about the heat issues that most of the lower states have to deal with. Unfortunately, AA doesn't even list any loading data for the 2520 anymore.
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