3000fps with 100gr

[mseric]

Can you post some real data compared with your calculations?

Even then, remember the max pressure is 50,000 psi regardless of whether you've used higher pressures with no apparent ill effect.

.

Sure.

http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?1009-reloading-software-question

[JASmith]

The link you listed does not show pressures.

Bill Alexander is spot on when he says that QuickLoad does not model the Grendel very well. I have seen QuickLoad generate pressures on the order of 5ksi off of the published pressures for some bullets in the Grendel.

While there are adjustments to the parameter settings that can get you close on both pressure and velocity, the current formulation does not properly treat long bullets seated in short cases. Until then, parameter adjustments neglect to capture the fact that the bullet base is really deep in the cartridge.

Until you have done that exercise a few times and are confident you have calibrated for the powder and bullet type, one should exercise supreme caution when using QuickLoad output to define your loads.

Yes the 100 gr bullet is significantly shorter than a 120 grain TTSX, but until you can demonstrate that you are getting the right combination of pressure and velocity with known loads, you can mislead yourself rather quickly...

[mseric]

Pressure is sixth from the left in psi.

[JASmith]

Pressure is sixth from the left in psi.

Hey, that is the pressure you compare with published test information.

The published pressure data needs to be compared with the number in the sixth from the left column and for the line that corresponds to the published powder charge and bullet.

I WILL REPEAT, USING QUICKLOAD WITHOUT DOING THESE NECESSARY CHECKS CAN BE BAD FOR YOUR RIFLE'S HEALTH (YOUR'S TOO!).

[bwaites]

What JASmith is saying is that the data in QuickLoad is not PROOF data, but PROJECTED data, which needs to be compared with ACTUAL data from a pressure test breech in order to be evaluated.

[mseric]

The published pressure data needs to be compared with the number in the sixth from the left column and for the line that corresponds to the published powder charge and bullet.

.

Sierra 107gr Matchking, 2.260 OAL ,24 inch barrel

TAC
Alexander Arms data. MAX 29.5gr 2730fps
QL data, 50,420psi Max 28.6gr 2697fps

VV N-140
AA Data Max 28.6gr 2520fps
QL data 50,127psi Max 28.6gr 2678fps

VV N-530
AA Data Max 26.3gr 2590fps
QL Data 49618psi Max 27.2gr 2676fps

VV N-540
AA Data Max 30.0gr 2610fps
QL data 49,994psi Max 29.5gr 2702fps

BL-(C)2
AA data Max 32gr 2730fps
QL data 50,043psi Max 30.5gr 2739fps

H-335
AA data Max 28.9gr 2650fps
QL Data 49,797psi Max 28.0gr 2697fps

AA 2640 (2460)
AA Data Max 29.3gr TBA
QL Data 50,294psi Max 28.7gr 2679fps

H-322
Hodgdon data 49,800psi Max 27.7gr 2607fps
QL Data 50,009psi Max 26.4gr 2697fps

AA 2230
Accurate Data 51,500psi Max 27.8gr 2520fps
QL Data 49,725psi Max 28gr 2561fps

Ramshot X-T
Ramshot Data 51,000psi Max 29.2gr 2649fps
QL Data 50,931psi Max 26.9gr 2606fps

Hornady 95gr V-Max OAL 2.245, 14.5 inch barrel

Benchmark
Hornady data Max 29.5gr 2500fps
QL data 50,357psi Max 28.8gr 2516fps

H-335
Hornady data Max 29.4gr 2500fps
QL Data 49,680psi Max 30.1gr 2572fps

AA 2460
Hornady Data Max 30.2gr 2550fps
QL data 49898psi Max 30.8gr 2548fps

R-Tac
Hornady data Max 30.2gr 2550fps
QL Data 49,867psi Max 30.7gr 2563fps

Norma N-201
Hornady data Max 30.5gr 2550fps
QL Data 49,984psi Max 30.1gr 2545fps

W-748
Hornady data Max 30.5gr 2400fps
QL data 49,485psi Max 31.3gr 2593fps

I see nothing dangerous here. Looks like QL is pretty "spot on" when modeling the Grendel.

[LRRPF52]

We were talking about QL and 3000fps velocities with 100gr class projectiles.

[mseric]

We were. Now that we have compared QL generated data to actual pressure tested data as requested we can go back to the original topic.

Also, if you look close at the QL data above you will see that it can on occasion be fairly optimistic as far as velocity is concerned. The 3031 loads may be one of these instances, then again maybe not.

[JASmith]

Good! You've done a lot of work -- and it wasn't wasted. As you can see, not everyone publishes pressure data, but you have probably done enough to give some confidence.

I'm sure you know, but other readers of this thread may not realize that one always needs to start low and work up, even with an aid like QuickLoad. There will continue to be surprises, as I discovered with the longer bullets. Cross-checking is always important!

You can also see that 3000 ft/sec with 100 gr bullets will entail pressures above the recommended maximum working pressure. I know, I've done similar exploratory calculations with QL, including the option of looking at all powders in a single parametric run.

[sgt_murf]

Good! You've done a lot of work -- and it wasn't wasted. As you can see, not everyone publishes pressure data, but you have probably done enough to give some confidence.

I'm sure you know, but other readers of this thread may not realize that one always needs to start low and work up, even with an aid like QuickLoad. There will continue to be surprises, as I discovered with the longer bullets. Cross-checking is always important!

You can also see that 3000 ft/sec with 100 gr bullets will entail pressures above the recommended maximum working pressure. I know, I've done similar exploratory calculations with QL, including the option of looking at all powders in a single parametric run.

That is correct, also what is not calculated is the reamers used to cut the chambers and the amount of freebore and throat dimensions. Where Mseric may top out at 2960 fps with my chamber I "might" make it to 2999 or someone else with a LBC Chamber might exceed the 3K fps within the allowable strength of the bolt. Another variance that a Lab can't take into effect the reloading practice ie minuium resizing of the case versus resizing to AA specs or the Die manf.

I'm quite sure P.O. Ackley and John Moses Browning had the Lab (parchment paper and pencil) on call when the .50 caliber BMG was developed or those WIldcat that P.O sought out. The point is these folks started low and worked up and used what sense they could muster. BTW P.O. distroyed more than his fair share of rifles from what I recall in publications from those that knew him.

the 50K is a definable limit that is built into the AR family, manifold pressure aka MAP plays in as well for the gas system.
The key note is start low and work up, because the case of the Grendel family is stronger than the AR-15 Family thus when pressure signs are noted you have already exceeded max pressure (this was pointed out by many on the old site)

JaSmith is not wrong in his views just we need to emphisi that these are to the outer and beyond limits of the Platform and can be flat out dangerous without proper precauctions.
P.S. my spell check does not work tonight

[LRRPF52]

mseric,

What does QL show my maximums for running the 100gr class projectiles out of a 16" barrel? I have 100gr NBT's and 107gr SMK's. I would like to get 2750 fps with the 100gr NBT's, but that's looking like a stretch. I have been able to get 2520fps with 120gr SMK's out of the 16" pipe with TAC.

[LRRPF52]

5.56 NATO/M16 is a 55,000 psi system.

[sneaky one]

Awesome job guys, on the data and such. JaSmith--- relax. . ( There may be a way, I have some old bullets.,,, ) I, and hopefully many here don't use- -trust any computer generated data, as the start point of hi-speed,,,. I'm going to buy a new powder this sunday,, and start loading in advance- safely.. There's the chance for mseric and I to shoot side by side and do some, comparing of notes, as a team effort, maybe real soon, I have low free time! - so next wknd. is all I have open- That's all I have . I would always appreciate some thoughts , and some good help. We'll have plenty to chat about, and maybe plan something for the future? This trully is the best place to be a grrr. fan. We will find the sweet spot -all of us - together,

[mseric]

the 50K is a definable limit that is built into the AR family.

What about the 5.56? It was the original and runs at 62K psi?

[sgt_murf]

5.56 NATO/M16 is a 55,000 psi system.

Yep, Sir you are correct in the 5.56mm chambering,
but it is listed on the 50K (there abouts, really I think is about 53K just not exactly sure) for the .223

Sneaky what bullets (100grs) are you planning to use? Nosler?