Wolf Steel Case

[Variable]

We really really wants it my precious!

[Bill Alexander]

The fill follows military requirements for 78% or thereabouts. The photograph is representative but glue and model powder does not always behave. The air space helps buffer the shifts in pressure due to temperature. Alternatively one can use a 100%-104% fill and let the thermal expansion of the powder reduce the available surface area but this will only work with certain powders. For high speed loading machines, powder must be selected that is conducive to the metering system and also the rapid motion. It has to provide consistency in the finished product regardless of slight variations in the charge weight. Most importantly the powder itself must have repetitive characteristics batch to batch and be readily available.

For a service cartridge there are a number of additional requirements that have to be satisfied. Among these are deviation of performance over time due to chemical instabilities. This will drive both the form and the type of propellant.

The load pressure is in accordance with SAAMI with the typical loaded round presenting 49,000 to 50,000 psi as sampled at STP on a new batch.

One should finally consider the controllability of the parent platform under fully automatic use in deriving the charge weight and final velocity, noting that a contribution of 1/3 charge weight is directly attributable to recoil at the muzzle velocity

[stanc]

The fill follows military requirements for 78% or thereabouts.

For a service cartridge there are a number of additional requirements that have to be satisfied.

One should finally consider the controllability of the parent platform under fully automatic use

Hmm. Intriguing comments. Why should military needs matter in what is ostensibly a sporting cartridge?

[BluntForceTrauma]

The shape, or form factor, of the 100gr FMJ reminds me of the 100gr Berger HPBT (now discontinued?), so I'd expect a similar BC. It is interesting to me that the lead fill, or, conversely, the size of the air pocket in the nose, reminds me of what we'd see in a 6.5 123gr HPBT.

On the other hand, if I compare Barnaul's bullet to Lapua's 6.5 100gr Scenar, where the lead fill almost looks ridiculous in only filling about half the bullet jacket with a huge air pocket, we might assume the BC of this will be less than the Scenar.

All this is academic, of course, because the BC is what it is, and if I want match performance I'm probably not going to use Wolf steel-case. Like the rest of you, I can't wait to blast away and leave piles of hot steel in my wake!

John

[stanc]

Yes. Exactly. I'll pay, and you give them my address Stan.

I'll take pics, do some chrono numbers, and you can write the article.

It's summer again, so I could also do another "Redneck Nuclear" heat test to check for temperature sensitivity.

Call Elander too, and have them send mags. I can test them during mag dumps.

Heh, heh. I think you're mostly joking, but that's actually not a bad idea seeing as how I'm stuck in a low-budget nursing home, with nil in the way of recreational activities. Sadly, it's just not feasible.

[NugginFutz]

Hmm. Intriguing comments. Why should military needs matter in what is ostensibly a sporting cartridge?

Those bits caught my attention, as well. I wonder how much weight one can faithfully place on these "offhand" comments...

[cory]

Those bits caught my attention, as well. I wonder how much weight one can faithfully place on these "offhand" comments...

I don't know how much I'd read into that. Mil-stds are commonly used where other industry stds are absent.

I find it hard to believe that 100gr projectile at 2600 fps from a 20" barrel would have any hopes of a NATO application......

Other than MAYBE it could be used to demonstrate that the Grendel can be a reliable round in the AR15 platform, in military testing.

[BluntForceTrauma]

I just read it as Barnaul is first and foremost a manufacturer of military ammunition and they're used to producing to military standards. I don't read into it that 65G steel-case is in danger of imminent military adoption by the U.S., NATO, or the Russkies.

John

[stanc]

Those bits caught my attention, as well. I wonder how much weight one can faithfully place on these "offhand" comments...

Who knows. Alexander's comments of earlier today don't seem to match up with what he posted in late 2012:

It cannot be emphasized enough that there is no military application whatsoever and as such both the rounds magazines and weapons are strictly commercial and for sporting purposes.

[stanc]

I don't know how much I'd read into that. Mil-stds are commonly used where other industry stds are absent.

Can you cite any other cartridge which was created solely for sporting use, that was developed to meet military requirements?

[stanc]

I just read it as Barnaul is first and foremost a manufacturer of military ammunition and they're used to producing to military standards.

I think that's certainly a plausible explanation for the statement: "The fill follows military requirements for 78% or thereabouts."

However, I don't see it explaining the comment: "For a service cartridge there are a number of additional requirements that have to be satisfied."

I don't read into it that 65G steel-case is in danger of imminent military adoption by the U.S., NATO, or the Russkies.

I agree. But, in my mind, the question isn't whether or not it will be adopted. It's, what were the development goals? Was it developed strictly for commercial sales, or was there a dual purpose?

I can't help but look at the available information and wonder. Consider the following:

1. The "6.45 Grendelski" post (on Tony's MG&A forum) by Guardsman26: "I have just heard that the Russian Army is developing a new intermediate caliber round based on the 6.5 mm Grendel." http://forums.delphiforums.com/autog...es/?msg=5287.1

2. The development (by Barnaul) of a steel-core bullet for sporting ammo made no sense at a time when it was well known that importation of steel-core 7.62x39 ammo had long been banned.

3. The development of steel-cased 6.5 Grendel ammo to meet requirements for a service cartridge, and for full-auto controllability, neither of which is particularly important to sporting ammo.

[cory]

Can you cite any other cartridge which was created solely for sporting use, that was developed to meet military requirements?

I was referring to engineering in general not just cartridges.

[stanc]

I was referring to engineering in general not just cartridges.

I understood that. So I take it you don't know of any cartridge to which your statement applies?

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

The fill follows military requirements for 78% or thereabouts. The photograph is representative but glue and model powder does not always behave. The air space helps buffer the shifts in pressure due to temperature. Alternatively one can use a 100%-104% fill and let the thermal expansion of the powder reduce the available surface area but this will only work with certain powders. For high speed loading machines, powder must be selected that is conducive to the metering system and also the rapid motion. It has to provide consistency in the finished product regardless of slight variations in the charge weight. Most importantly the powder itself must have repetitive characteristics batch to batch and be readily available.

For a service cartridge there are a number of additional requirements that have to be satisfied. Among these are deviation of performance over time due to chemical instabilities. This will drive both the form and the type of propellant.

The load pressure is in accordance with SAAMI with the typical loaded round presenting 49,000 to 50,000 psi as sampled at STP on a new batch.

One should finally consider the controllability of the parent platform under fully automatic use in deriving the charge weight and final velocity, noting that a contribution of 1/3 charge weight is directly attributable to recoil at the muzzle velocity

Fact is: The muzzle velocity of the just-released WOLF 6.5mm Grendel Steel Case 100-grain load, as tested by David Fortier from a 20-inch barrel (2600 fps), is 200+ fps slower than the "2,850 fps" stated in the January, 2013 Western Shooting Journal brief accompanying the WOLF 6.5mm Grendel Steel Case Ammo full-page ad (http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=2148.0), and the "2,847 fps" (20-inch barrel, 100-grain Alexander Arms Berger OTM) reported by David Fortier, in his November 2, 2011 6.5 Grendel Evolution article (http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2011/...del-evolution/).

Bottom Line: Whereas, the Alexander Arms and Hornady 6.5mm Grendel factory ammo delivers what 6.5mm Grendel Enthusiasts expect, the new WOLF 6.5mm Grendel Steel Case 100-grain ammo leaves something to be desired.

[montana]

I understood that. So I take it you don't know of any cartridge to which your statement applies?

The 300 Savage and Remington 222 were developed into the 7.62X51 and the 5.56 rounds. Perhaps the new ammo is purposely lower pressure for longer bolt life ,more reliability using a steel case, cheaper practice ammo for high volume round counts as in three gun or recreational shooting , "who knows" ?