Wolf Steel Case

[Variable]

Bottom Line: Whereas, the Alexander Arms and Hornady 6.5mm Grendel factory ammo delivers what 6.5mm Grendel Enthusiasts expect, the new WOLF 6.5mm Grendel Steel Case 100-grain ammo leaves something to be desired. [/B]

Ummmm... Do you have any past experience with Wolf steel cased ammo? It's pretty much always on the mild side velocity wise. It's weak-sauce usually, but the tradeoff is it's cheap! Now if the new offering is also cheap, then it'll likely be delivering exactly what I expected.

ETA: If it holds up, we might be able to call it "75% to 80% of the performance for 50% of the price".

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

. . . ETA: If it holds up, we might be able to call it "75% to 80% of the performance for 50% of the price".

It's nice to know than Hornady gives 100% of the performance (http://www.hornady.com/store/223-REM...P-STEEL-MATCH/) (http://www.hornady.com/store/223-Rem-75-gr-BTHP-Match/), for 50% of the price (MidwayUSA.com: Hornady .223 Remington 75-grain BTHP Steel Match, $0.46/round; Hornady .223 Remington 75-grain BTHP Match (brass case), $0.91/round.

[Variable]

Well, if somebody could convince Hornady to roll them, I'd be real interested.

Till then though, I'll have to aim for Wolf.

Caveat--- All numbers pending actual price and field performance of inbound Wolf rounds.LOL

[stanc]

It's nice to know than Hornady gives 100% of the performance, for 50% of the price.

That's all well and good, but there's no indication Hornady is likely to offer steel-case 6.5 Grendel ammo.

Which gives better performance: 80% ammo that's actually in production, or 100% ammo that may never be?

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

. . . Which gives better performance: 80% ammo that's actually in production, or 100% ammo that may never be?

I submit that the big question, here, is Why?

Why is it that WOLF gives us 100%, on their .223 Remington 55-grain Steel Case Ammo (3241 fps vs Hornady's 3240 fps), but some 250 fps less, on their 6.5mm Grendel 100-grain Steel Case Ammo?
(http://www.hornady.com/store/223-REM...P-STEEL-MATCH/);
(http://www.wolfammo.com/index.php?op...=76&Itemid=115);
(http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2011/...del-evolution/);
(http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/6...pic_IN_OP.html).

As has been well-documented in these Pages, Alexander Arms, Hornady factory-loaded 6.5mm Grendel ammunition respects the strict limitations (read: penalty) imposed on its performance to offset its added Bolt Thrust on the smaller AR-15's .222 Remington Bolt --- no such restriction on Bolt Guns. Personally, I see WOLF's further reduction in the 6.5mm Grendel's performance, as an insult to injury --- effectively compromising its position in the 6.5mm Grendel vs 6.8mm Remington SPC wars.

[Drifter]

Why is it that WOLF gives us 100%, on their .223 Remington 55-grain Steel Case Ammo (3241 fps vs Hornady's 3240 fps), but some 250 fps less, on their 6.5mm Grendel 100-grain Steel Case Ammo?

FWIW, I don't think Wolf black box 223 steel case will be anywhere near that claimed velocity.

[stanc]

Why is it that WOLF gives us 100%, on their .223 Remington 55-grain Steel Case Ammo (3241 fps vs Hornady's 3240 fps), but some 250 fps less, on their 6.5mm Grendel 100-grain Steel Case Ammo?

Personally, I see WOLF's further reduction in the 6.5mm Grendel's performance, as an insult to injury --- effectively compromising its position in the 6.5mm Grendel vs 6.8mm Remington SPC wars.

Maybe the management of Wolf and/or Barnaul are rabid 6.8 SPC fans...

[Variable]

FWIW, I don't think Wolf black box 223 steel case will be anywhere near that claimed velocity.

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

FWIW, I don't think Wolf black box 223 steel case will be anywhere near that claimed velocity.

WOLF Performance Ammunition - WOLF Polyformance: ".223 Rem - 75 gr - Bimetal - HP - Berdan - 2750 fps; 6.5 Grendel - 110 gr - Bimetal - FMJ - Berdan - 2620 fps"
(http://www.wolfammo.com/index.php?op...=76&Itemid=115).

"Wolf has just introduced a new .223 Remington 75 grain HPBT steel case load. . . . The first few shots [Rock River 20 inch DCM Match rifle with 1-8 inch twist] clocked higher than I expected (2,770 fps)"
(http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.ht...&f=20&t=111194) (Scroll down to the bottom of the Page, 6/4/2008 Post, By Gunwritr).

"UPS just dropped off a case of WOLF 6.5mm Grendel steel case.........production ammo. 100 gr FMJ. . . . 20 inch barrel, Average of 10 shots, 2600 fps."
(http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/6...pic_IN_OP.html)(Top of Page, 6/19/2014 Post, By Gunwritr).

[Variable]

WOLF Performance Ammunition - WOLF Polyformance: ".223 Rem - 75 gr - Bimetal - HP - Berdan - 2750 fps; 6.5 Grendel - 110 gr - Bimetal - FMJ - Berdan - 2620 fps"
(http://www.wolfammo.com/index.php?op...=76&Itemid=115).

"Wolf has just introduced a new .223 Remington 75 grain HPBT steel case load. . . . The first few shots [Rock River 20 inch DCM Match rifle with 1-8 inch twist] clocked higher than I expected (2,770 fps)"
(http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.ht...&f=20&t=111194) (Scroll down to the bottom of the Page, 6/4/2008 Post, By Gunwritr).

"UPS just dropped off a case of WOLF 6.5mm Grendel steel case.........production ammo. 100 gr FMJ. . . . 20 inch barrel, Average of 10 shots, 2600 fps."
(http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/6...pic_IN_OP.html)(Top of Page, 6/19/2014 Post, By Gunwritr).

Okay, I guess there's an exception to prove every rule.LOL

Did you also notice the other data in that thread corroborating what we just posted above? That being that the 55 grain and other usual stuff is a good bit slower than listed?

I'm thinking this isn't going to be the particular cartridge offering you are looking for. As for me, I'm only going to complain about availability for now. I'll bitch about usability if there are issues after I actually touch some of it.LOL

ETA: Why do you Bold everything you post? Is that like new age yelling? (J/K!) I don't get it?

[Drifter]

WOLF Performance Ammunition - WOLF Polyformance: ".223 Rem - 75 gr - Bimetal - HP - Berdan - 2750 fps; 6.5 Grendel - 110 gr - Bimetal - FMJ - Berdan - 2620 fps"
(http://www.wolfammo.com/index.php?op...=76&Itemid=115).

"Wolf has just introduced a new .223 Remington 75 grain HPBT steel case load. . . . The first few shots [Rock River 20 inch DCM Match rifle with 1-8 inch twist] clocked higher than I expected (2,770 fps)"
(http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.ht...&f=20&t=111194) (Scroll down to the bottom of the Page, 6/4/2008 Post, By Gunwritr).

"UPS just dropped off a case of WOLF 6.5mm Grendel steel case.........production ammo. 100 gr FMJ. . . . 20 inch barrel, Average of 10 shots, 2600 fps."
(http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/6...pic_IN_OP.html)(Top of Page, 6/19/2014 Post, By Gunwritr).

You changed the ammo to fit your argument. Your previous post referenced Wolf 223 55gr steel case at a claimed 3241 fps. Don't think it runs that fast.

[Variable]

Maybe the management of Wolf and/or Barnaul are rabid 6.8 SPC fans...

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

"Shouldn't we be expecting more than 2800 fps at that [20"] barrel length?"

My sentiment, as well, John.

"And, in related news, WOLF has a full-page ad in the January, 2013 Western Shooting Journal featuring the WOLF Steel Case 6.5 Grendel ammo, as well as a side piece detailing the ballistics, '110-grain FMJ boattail bullet, with bimetal jacket, reported MV, 2,850 fps.'" (http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=2148.0).

Wanting to compare the downrange performance of the 100-grain FMJBT projectile used in the new WOLF 6.5mm Grendel Steel Case ammo, against projectiles used in other cartridges, I yesterday E-mailed a request for the specific Ballistic Coefficient of that projectile to, info@wolfammo.com.
I today received a response, "We sent an email over to ask the ballistic coefficient for you. I'll let you know as soon as I get it."

In the absence of the specific Ballistic Coefficient figure from WOLF, as of this writing, I've chosen the Ballistic Coefficient for the Hornady 6.5mm .264 100-grain A-MAX spitzer boattail projectile: 0.390. Using 20" barrels, let's compare the new WOLF Steel Case 6.5mm Grendel 100-grain FMJBT load, against a popular feral hog load, Hornady's .223 Remington 75-grain Match (BC - 0.395) and the Hornady 6.5mm Grendel 123-grain A-MAX load (BC - 0.510).

. . . . . . . . . . . . . Muzzle . . . . 100 yd . . . . 200 yd . . . . . 300 yd . . . 400 yd . . . . 500 yd

. . . . . . . . . . . . V(fps)/E(ft-lbs)

.223 R./75-gr . 2699/1213 . 2495/1037 . 2300/881 . . 2114/744 . 1937/625 . . 1769/521
6.5 G./100 gr . 2600/1501 . 2398/1277 . 2205/1079 . 2021/907 . 1847/757 . . 1683/629
6.5 G./123 gr . 2582/1821 . 2429/1611 . 2281/1421 . 2139/1249 . 2001/1094 . 1869/954

In view of the above, if the street price of the new WOLF 6.5mm Grendel Steel Case ammo is compatible with their 5.56 Steel Case ammo, it's a great buy: one man's opinion.

Related reading: 6.5 Grendel Evolution (http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2011/...del-evolution/).

Upon reviewing this comparison, one looking in might well ask, "Where does the 6.8mm Remington SPC fit in"?

Dialing-in the Hornady 6.8mm 110-grain BTHP projectile's Ballistic Coefficient, 0.360, and the typical muzzle velocity from a 20-inch-barreled 6.8mm Remington SPC-chambered rifle, approx. 2,700 fps (http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=478714) (See Flakbait, February 11, 2012 Post), I ran the numbers:

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Muzzle . . . . 100 yd . . . . 200 yd . . . . . 300 yd . . . . 400 yd . . . . 500 yd

. . . . . . . . . . . . . V(fps)/E(ft-lbs)

6.8 SPC/110 gr . 2700/1780 . 2477/1498 . 2264/1252 . 2062/1039 . 1871/855 . 1693/700

[Variable]

[B]Upon reviewing this comparison, one looking in might well ask, "Where does the 6.8mm Remington SPC fit in"?

I guess somebody might ask, since apparently you are, but frankly I'm not. Seriously (and I'm not trying to be snide or insulting in any way), what possible roles did you imagine a steel cased el'cheapo wolf offering to be intended for? It's a cheap mild plinking load. That's it really. I'm not aware of anyone ever alluding to more. Maybe I missed it if they did though.

It kind of looks like you are trying to seriously compare Ramen noodles to a filet mignon. It's intended to be a bargain basement blaster offering. It was never intended for fine dining (so far as I'm aware).

If cartridges were food:

1.) Wolf Steel case: Ramen noodles. Cheap and fills you up.

2.) Wolf Gold 120 MPT: McDonalds Big Mac. It was expected to be a regular cheese burger, but surprised us as an extra value meal. The price has been creeping up over the years though.

3.) Horandy Amax and SST loads: Applebees, Outback, Texas Roadhouse, etc. It costs more and is pretty decent if you aren't hoity toity.

4.) Precision Firearms and Alexander loadings (like Lapua, Barnes, etc...): Your fine locally oriented (sole source-- kinda) fancy restaurant. It definitely costs more, but if you or your rifle have discerning tastes then it might be what you demand.

5.) Custom OCD handloads with mountains of careful prep: Private chef meals specifically oriented to the specific palate of the shooter/rifle. Cost variable, but if you factor in time, effort, and equipment outlay, it could result in anywhere from a grilled cheese sandwich to the snobbiest meal you ever ate.

I don't think it's fair to compare Wolf steel cased ammo to custom and/or expensive loads.


You mention 6.8 repeatedly.... Do you think if Wolf loaded it (in steel case as bargain fodder) that it'd be some hot rodded offering with a good BC for caliber and also be an accurate HPBT projectile? Or would it more than likely be a somewhat bland FMJ offering that would be about the same as what they just loaded for the Grendel?

Just my opinion: Expectations--- They have to be realistic, or you are fated to be perpetually dissappointed.

I could open up a bag of ramen and look for the steak, but it was never intended to be in there from the beginning.

Of course we are having this discussion before the round is even for sale (we don't even have a price!). So...... If it comes out priced on the "Outback" menu, then I'm going to be pissed and I'll gladly join you in being dissapointed. Heck, I want it so I can finally use my registered sear again. Doing bursts is just too costly any other way these days. A mag dump (which I'm not really into anyway) is just out of the question anymore!

I hope what I've said above doesn't come across as being snarky, as that is not my intent. It's just my opinion. Sleep deprivation isn't making me the most talented wordsmith either.LOL

[JASmith]

Has anyone tracked down or estimated trajectories for the Wolf steel case ammunition?

It seems to me that the sleek 100 grain bullet in the Wolf steel case with a muzzle velocity of about 2600 fps might track rather close to our favorite 120 -123 grain hunting rounds.

If true, this makes the ammunition a truly excellent practice round.