Wolf Steel Case

[LR1955]

I bought a complete 6.5 Grendel upper from J&T in 2009 and it shipped with the Phantom flash hider installed. I shot some steel case Wolf ammo at 200 yards today and the groups weren't very good. I can't say for sure if it was me or the ammo. I had a friend shoot my 6.5 Grendel and his groups were about like mine. My J&T 6.5 Grendel barrel is a medium profile chrome Moly barrel with a CAR hand guard. The groups were pretty much minute of man off the bench using a bipod and my Leupold Mark AR 3X9X40 scope. We each shot five round groups which put 3 rounds in about 2" then two fliers away from the other three producing about 5" groups.

With factory A-Max this rifle will stay around 1 MOA to at least 600 yards. I shot some reloaded 123 grain Nosler CC with 31.0 grains of CFE 223 and CCI 450 primers in Hornady brass. I had one group of 2.5" but for the most part this rifle does not like this load either. My Shilen 6.5 Grendel has shot this load into 1 MOA out to 880 yards.

On the positive side the Wolf functioned 100 % in my J&T and wasn't all that dirty to shoot. Probably cleaner than the Wolf brass cased 120 grain Soft Points I shot a few years ago.

The temperature started out in the low 80's and we were shooting with shifting winds. By the time we quit the temperature was in the low 90's with 70+ % humidity.

VC:


That Wolf 123 Soft Point was, without any doubt, the worse ammunition anyone has used. Its fowling surpassed anything in my memory. That ammo, from the poor brass through poor bullet is the extreme end of being crap. It is truly an outlier.

How does the fowling of the Grendel steel case stuff compare to normal ammo in terms of fowling?

As for comparisons of accuracy, it ought to be compared against other service grades of ammunition. And, a person would have to shoot some good sample sizes before conclusions.

In this case, mean accuracy would be about 3 1/2 minutes.

Good (for service grade ammo) would be from 2 to 3 minutes.

Exceptional (for service grade) would be around 2 minutes.

Upper three percent (for service grade) would be 1 to 1 1/2 minutes.

You guys are shooting this stuff through rifles that are far superior in workmanship to service grade rifles so it ought to hold around two to three minutes. My bet is it is a four minute blaster from a service grade barrel. Like the other Wolf ammo, it is the bullet. If you pulled the bullets and seated 100 grain match bullets on top of the same charge, brass, and primer I bet you would cut the group sizes in half. I did this with Wolf MPT. Removed the 120 grain PPU bullet and replaced it with a 120 Match King.

Can't do anything about the low velocities. Wolf seems to go that route. No doubt due to safety concerns.

LR1955

[BluntForceTrauma]

Really appreciate everyone taking time from their busy schedules to post reports, the good, the bad, and the ugly!

[VASCAR2]

I consider my Chrome Moly J&T (Shaw Barrel possibly) a rack grade rifle and I'm probably average in ability. I have a RRA NM trigger and the Wolf produced consistent 2.5-3 MOA in the wind. I had frog lube on the bolt and carrier which had really liquified in the heat. The Wolf actually was cleaner burning than the 31.0 grains of CFE 223 and 123 Nolser CC hand load. The Wolf also had a stronger ejection and the hand load appeared to be almost under gassed. I did find one split Wolf case when examining the cases out of curiosity. The profile of the 100 grain FMJ reminds me more of the 107 SMK than the other 100 grain bullets I've loaded.

For the price I think the Wolf Steel case is decent ammo. Definitely good enough for hog hunting or 3 gun if the range is under 200 yards. At least you don't have to be concerned about loosing expensive brass cases. At least the Wolf functioned 100% in my rifle and was enjoyable to shoot. This ammo would be plenty good for off hand or CQB practice.

[arizona98tj]

Did I miss it? Has anyone, since shooting this first production shipment, seen the supposed 1 MOA "average" results that were indicated earlier in this thread?

[txgunner00]

I fired 25 rounds out at the lease this morning. Just busting rocks so no accuracy reports but all functioned good with consistent ejection pattern.

[NugginFutz]

Did I miss it? Has anyone, since shooting this first production shipment, seen the supposed 1 MOA "average" results that were indicated earlier in this thread?

Patience, Grasshopper. A weekend is upon us, and more reports are likely to filter in, soon. And, no, nobody has reported match level performance with this bargain priced ammo, yet.

[stanc]

Did I miss it? Has anyone, since shooting this first production shipment, seen the supposed 1 MOA "average" results that were indicated earlier in this thread?

If you're referring to Fortier's results back in June, I think you may have misread the post:

Average for three 10-shot groups is 2.4 inches.
The tightest five shots of each group averaged 1 inch.

Note that average group size was 2.4 MOA, not 1 MOA.

I don't know if selectively measuring the tightest five shots in each group gives any meaningful information.

[arizona98tj]

If you're referring to Fortier's results back in June, I think you may have misread the post:

Average for three 10-shot groups is 2.4 inches.
The tightest five shots of each group averaged 1 inch.

Note that average group size was 2.4 MOA, not 1 MOA.

I don't know if selectively measuring the tightest five shots in each group gives any meaningful information.

Actually, I was thinking about this one from HANKA, when I asked the question.

Talked with Bill and he said to be patient, it's here and it's coming.

As a side note, he's extremely pleased with it's accuracy. Averaging 1 MOA! Excellent for Russian steel-cased ammo. And he's very happy with how well it operates the shorter barrels, something about the pressure curve being almost perfect.

[NugginFutz]

If you're referring to Fortier's results back in June, I think you may have misread the post:

Average for three 10-shot groups is 2.4 inches.
The tightest five shots of each group averaged 1 inch.

Note that average group size was 2.4 MOA, not 1 MOA.

I don't know if selectively measuring the tightest five shots in each group gives any meaningful information.

Spot on, Stanc. This type of "Spanish Inquisition" statistical reporting is further proof that if you torture the data long enough, you can get it to confess to anything.

(just waiting for the MPFC references to attack, unexpectedly.)

[montana]

I just returned from the range where I got mixed results. A 4 shot group at just under 1 - 1/2 inches and then 2 fliers which stretched it over 8 inches for a 6 shot group. The next group was 4 shots just over an inch and then I started to get fliers with my last 3 shots which stretched it out to just under 6 inches. I shot 2 control groups with Wolf Gold 120 gr and Horn 123 gr Amax which shot consistent groups with this rifle. The best 5 shot group I obtained was approximately 4 inches. I will experiment some more with this ammo but so far I wouldn't call it match ammo by any stretch of the imagination. I put a total of 80 rounds through my rifle which functioned perfectly. I was surprised how clean the bolt was after shooting this ammo, I expected it to be a lot dirtier. When I get some more time I will try this ammo with my other rifles and at longer ranges.

[Double Naught Spy]

I just returned from the range where I got mixed results. A 4 shot group at just under 1 - 1/2 inches and then 2 fliers which stretched it over 8 inches for a 6 shot group.

I have seen this before with Wolf ammo, the weird flyers. They sort of scare the hell out of me.

[Smokepole50]

I shot some of the new Wolf ammo last week out of my 16 inch Chrome lined Saber Defense upper from AA. I was hoping for better accuracy but it will serve it purpose as close range SHTF ammo. My groups were low and to the right from my normal POI with 123gr A-Max factory loads. My rifle will shoot around 1 MOA with Hornady ammo and sometimes better than that. I have not measured my patterns but it grouped about 2 inches side to side and about 4 inches top to bottom. Not great but if the bullet works as intended it will be accurate enough. Maybe it will improve with time, this is just the first batch.

[BluntForceTrauma]

Sounds like Bill just got lucky, or it likes his gun. This ammo is what it is, and is gonna be what it's gonna be. But even Barnaul's website lists "bullet dispersion" as 3.93" at 100m.

[biodsl]

I just returned from the range where I got mixed results. A 4 shot group at just under 1 - 1/2 inches and then 2 fliers which stretched it over 8 inches for a 6 shot group. The next group was 4 shots just over an inch and then I started to get fliers with my last 3 shots which stretched it out to just under 6 inches. I shot 2 control groups with Wolf Gold 120 gr and Horn 123 gr Amax which shot consistent groups with this rifle. The best 5 shot group I obtained was approximately 4 inches.

I had similar results on Friday. Was shooting my Sabre Defense 14.5" CL barrel. The best 5 shot group I got at 100 yards was around 5 inches. At 200 yards the group grew to over 10 inches. Both Wolf MPT and factory Hornady A-Max shot sub-MOA during the same session, so I guess I was doing my part.

I noticed during my range session that the Grendel steel looked significantly shorter than either of the other factory loads. I measured when I got home. Here are my numbers measuring five rounds of each:

Steel case: 2.202 - 2.209
Wolf MPT: 2.232 -2.236
A-Max: 2.242 - 2.244

I'm curious about the hordes thoughts on if the shorter overall length might be affecting performance.

As it stands I'm underwhelmed. It's a shame that Wolf MPT is all but un-obtainable for the last few months. I continued to be impressed with it's performance in the Sabre barrels.

This is the final straw: I'm ordering my reloading equipment this week. If I want to shoot my Grendel with ammo that can actually hit something at 300 yards, I guess I have to reload. I can't afford a steady diet of A-Max. Hornady could save me the trouble by loading a Grendel Steel Match.

[SHORT-N-SASSY]

. . . I can't afford a steady diet of A-Max. Hornady could save me the trouble by loading a Grendel Steel Match.

Let's share this sentiment with Hornady (http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...unition-lineup).