Wolf Steel Case

[appleseed-kdc]

6.5mm barrel ???

As in Grendel 6.5 ???

I thought Robarms had given up, again, on the 6.5.

Tell us more ;-)

[LRRPF52]

From guys who run high-volume courses and have seen them come through, they're seeing ejectors break a lot under extended fire, since the XCR uses a fixed ejector for...added reliability like the AK.

My experience is that a properly-serviced Milspec AR with M193 or M855 is more reliable than 75% of the AK variants out there shooting COMBLOC steel case ammo. The Finns have the best quality ammo by far, since it is Sako brass marked Sako or FDF symbol 7.62x39, with a very good bullet, and the Valmet's and Sako's run extremely well, but are way too heavy compared to an M4. Anyway, I too was interested in the XCR when it came out, and have watched closely. So far, I can't find a reason to get one based on the majority of the data I have collected regarding the design itself, refusal to market it at SHOT inexplicably, customer service, and the performance at high-volume courses.

A fixed ejector will beat the trash out of your brass, which is why the AR is really the go-to gun right now for Grendel reloaders. The XCR would be ok for blasting steel case through, as long as the chamber is hard and smooth enough, and the bugs can be worked out. I personally would want an AR15 ejector in the XCR's large bolt, but that would be custom work right there, and I have yet to find an assault rifle design that can really hold its own next to a properly-built AR15. That's from me having been shooting AK's of over a dozen countries for a good part of my life, and not just plinking with them.

[appleseed-kdc]

I remember that.

He had just got his XCR the previous week. Hadn't followed the Robarms XCR manual break-in procedure. Hadn't tested his equipment, including magazines. Hadn't tested the ammo and took it to a course.

That is pretty unfair to critisize based on that video. A lot of people reference it and it gave the XCR an unjustified black eye.

I would like to know "they're seeing ejectors break a lot under extended fire" what references you have for that. I'm still on the XCR forum and haven't seen anything about that. There have been a couple of ejectors coming loose, because people didn't check their rifles. Most people loctite them in, just in case. But come on. Maintenance. Check your equipment every now and again. Many users on the XCR forum have 10,000+ rounds, post break-in, with no issues on their rifles.

As far as SHOT is concerned. It seems Robarms doesn't like paying the fees ($3,500 - $10,000). They are only a small 8-15 person shop (we have never found the true numbers). There again, AA only has 8 people the last I heard.

My XCR's broke in around 100 and 260 rounds respectively. I now have 1,275 and 1,850 logged rounds through them in 3-years. I don't have any post break-in logged failures, but do have numerous on my AA tac-16 Grendel and wife's FS2000. I also have 7.62x39 kits, with early C-products magazines but they were exchanged as the springs were not strong enough. Unfortunately, I only have 375 and 625 rounds through the 7.62's.

NOTE: My last post on this thread

[hellcat370]

i don't reload, so how hard it extracts doesn't make much difference to me. I just want it to go bang and accurately hit the target haha. i paid for the kit 3 years ago, and basically have been a constant nuisance to Alex and the guys, so thier finally, supposedly, making me a barrel. I'll start a new thread about it, if and when i get it. it really does good in 5.56mm with hornady steel match, so we'll see how the 6.5mm does if the steel case stuff comes out anytime soon.

[stanc]

12 Dec update:

"Case testing is complete and went well. Now its up to the Russian factory to run the spec steel cases and load them up.

Pending last minute changes, it will be a steel case, with a 110 grain bullet with profile similar to the 107 grain Sierra Match King. Final bullet composition will be up to Wolf and their Russian partners."

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_453/209639_6_5_Grendel_Trademark_Released_and_Steel_Cases_In_Hand.html&page=2#i1742848

[badgerlb]

I saw that post over on arf... I'm really looking forward to this hitting the shelves

[jwilson1985]

ya im looking forward to seeing how it shoots.

[txgunner00]

If this ammo is worth a darn I will definitely build a blaster upper.

[AR-180]

I am so ready for this ammo.

[QuadCam]

What's the projected price point for a box of 20 rounds of the wolf steel case?

[Ned Christiansen]

It'd be nice if they could get it below $400/M. I really think that for every $25/M lower than $450/M they can make it, the interest in 6.5 will increase greatly.

Now let's see what they have at SHOT..... my hopes are high.

[stanc]

Fyi

steel case grendel is rattling along nicely. Preproduction testing was interesting if only the instrumentation that had to be rigged on a short time frame. The cases ran exceptionally well and the preferred route is to use the green lacquer, which will help reduce costs even further. The chamber and case design has heritage in the soviet 7.62 so it was a pleasant surprise to see how well everything worked. We even ran proof loads through cyclic testing to see how the system might gum up but everything ran fine. +300f to -40f on the initial environmental and again no problems. Accuracy testing is ongoing but in the absence of a finalized projectile the work is only indicative of the potential of the cases and ignition train. The low operational pressure and short case body are fundamental to this behavior. It was enlightening to work with the russians on this as they have such a depth of understanding on the limitations and strengths of steel as a case material. Longer cases create problems with spring back so pressures must be dropped proportionally or much greater case tapers must be used such as the 7.62x54r.

Grendel rifles generally use projectiles with good sectional density. They will penetrate exceedingly well and subsequently tend to hunt beyond caliber in what they will kill. I doubt that the initial loadings will cater for hunting per se.

[Bill Alexander]

I will try and dig out some of the pictures of the rig set ups we used. It was an interesting few weeks and as interesting to see how the rifles performed, as the ammunition.

I was exceptionally pleased that that "sloppy" neck I put in the design actually proved itself to be a useful feature.The green lacquer quandry that it sticks cases proved to be unfounded utterly. I was always questioning why the Russians who have a propensity for fully automatic fire would ever use a case finish that was detrimental to function. Given the chamber design it was seen that the green stuff actually helped as everything got hot/cold/dirty.

Just for Stan's notes we ran just over 2800 rounds for the initial test phase just to examine the cases. In the end we had to conclude the test as abreviated.

[burnsome]

thanks for the updates. was any of the 2800 rounds fired in a full auto gun by chance? am wondering how the green laquer quandry will perform when the barrel gets heated up to the max....

[Bill Alexander]

The gun was instrumented and ran up to +300 F externally measured temperature under continuous firing and also allowed to cool repetatively with a round in the chamber. We cheated a little to push the temperatures up by the use of external heating tape and a perheat for the loaded magazines . The temperature was limited by safety, the need to be able to handle the ammunition and magazines and the magazine followers melting out. It remained a problem to maintain weapon lubrication at these temperatures. Fully automatic fire was not shown to be a problem.

While it is possible to acheive higher temperatures during extreme use in high solar loadings it is also extremely rare and is frequently accompanied by weapon failure.