Rumor- PRVI dropping their Grendel loads?

[SDguy]

Question here, So for clarity Privi is not abandoning the Grendel ammo? do I understand correct they Privi is offering replacement ammo not a refund? and the new brass will be small rifle primer?

While I am sorry to see Privi and their Grendel customers encountering issues I am optimistic and glad to see a new and IMPROVED brass case becoming available in the not to distant future.

I am not expecting Lapua quality mind you, just very improved over their recent past offerings.

I for one am looking forward to reports on the replacement offering to come.

[NugginFutz]

How DARE you see a positive aspect to this obvious tragedy!

Seriously, though, my grief with the whole issue is what I perceive to be a very disingenuous attempt to lay their issues at the feet of the barrel makers. Very poor form, old man!

[A5BLASTER]

I don't shoot their ammo but it does blow to lose a ammo supplyer.

[sneaky one]

Nimitz- they must be recalling the ammo for a Big reason. Time will tell why, and if they release the reason.


More ammo companies are slowly coming on board. Speculation does nothing.

BFT & I have shot the fmj ammo from ppu- speeds are not very consistant. Accuracy is blasting watermelons @ 20 yds. only quality.

Don'y cry if they bail--- load your own quality ammo- it's soooo easy to do.

And price point is about the same.

[rickOshay]

Question here, So for clarity Privi is not abandoning the Grendel ammo? do I understand correct they Privi is offering replacement ammo not a refund? and the new brass will be small rifle primer?

No - they stated they "are no longer offering 6.5 Grendel ammo or brass". They offer to replace the ammo with any OTHER ammo they have in stock. Or a cash refund of amount paid plus shipping cost.

[Eisenacharms]

Added my spreadsheet with case lengths I measured.

[SDguy]

Question here, So for clearly Privi is not abandoning the Grendel ammo? do I understand correct they Privi is offering replacement ammo not a refund? and the new brass will be small rifle primer?

While I am sorry to see Privi and their Grendel customers encountering issues I am optimistic and glad to see a new and IMPROVED brass case becoming available in the not to distant future.

I am not expecting Lapua quality mind you, just very improved over their recent past offerings.

I for one am looking forward to reports on the replacement offering to come.

[rickOshay]

Anyone with a case gauge can check their PPU/Wolf Gold for excessive cartridge head space. This is the issue here. I've measured some rounds that were dangerously short and went on record several month ago in regards to this....

Yes- you pointed out that SAAMI Headspace was 1.220 - 0.007", or a minimum of 1.213" and PPU and Wolf ammo were short. You had also posted this link to others that have experienced problems with PPU: http://www.predatormastersforums.com...2848722&page=1

Knowing the Horde loves data, I took measurements on 7 remaining commercial Hornady 123 SST ammo I have, and a box of PPU 120 HPBTs. I also had a gallon zip lock full of 1x fired Hornady cases and 1 of PPU cases.

NOTE: the barrel used was a 17.5" Lilja that measures COAL for 123 gr AMAX = 2.273"

Pulled out random handfuls from the bags and took photos.




From the random samples of both bags, you can find flattened primers, but no other signs of excessive pressure. In the PPU photo, you can find 8 - 10 flattened primers; and 3-4 in the Hornady picture.

I then took measurements using a .35 case gauge on 10 of each brass make and the commercial loaded ammo:


Conclusions?
1. More flattened PPU primers than Hornady
2. The Hornady headspace are just under the minimum SAAMI
3. The PPU ammo headspace was significantly under the minimum
4. Web dimension expanded on both ammo from new 0.437, but PPU significantly more.
5. Always insist on SAAMI chambers
6. I will likely keep my PPU ammo
7. Not sure why PPU is blaming barrel manufacturers for their out of spec ammo.

[rickOshay]

Added my spreadsheet with case lengths I measured.

Our results agree.

[BluntForceTrauma]

Thanks, ROS, great data.

[Eisenacharms]

Our results agree.

Nicely done sir.

[JASmith]

Those tables prompted me to take a quick look at the SAAMI and CIP specifications links at http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showt...endel-Drawings. Differences in he definitions may have caused the problem we are debating.

I would like to pursue in proper detail but I don't have the time right now so provided the link below so someone might be able to ferret through the dimensions.

It appears that CIP does not call out a datum for headspace but instead uses the junctions at the shoulder and neck to define body length. My quick check suggested that there continue to be issues with the CIP definition. For example, it looks like the maximum allowable cartridge won't fit in a minimum chamber.

The CIP chamber body also appears to be somewhat shorter than the SAAMI chamber. That could possibly explain the PPU body lengths.

We can take our conclusions to Hornady (the sponsor of the SAAMI Grendel entry) and to SAAMI to request an examination by both CIP and SAAMI to better harmonize the two definitions.

[kmon]

JASmith, you could be correct but then I would think there might be issues with Lapua and Norma as they use CIP standards don't they? The few new lapua brass I have is more inline with the Hornady brass than the PPU brass.

[JASmith]

Lapua in particular was involved with developing the Grendel cartridge. One could speculate that they made use of the tolerances assigned by CIP and SAAMI to field a cartridge in compliance with both.

The hiccup happens when one goes with the minimum CIP specification for the body length and not cross check against the consequences in a SAAMI maximum chamber.

So, part of the check one of us (likely not me for time issues) is to compare the Eisenacharms and rickOshay measurements against the CIP specification. That is more challenging because one will need to establish a common reference point for the gage and the CIP (by geometry?) to make the comparisons and then repeat for the SAAMI spec.

After that we will be in a better position to intuit what PPU might have done in its design effort and whether there might be a sweet spot for them or another manufacturer can find a "sweet spot" that works.

The other worrisome item is how many rifles were made to the old CIP freebore-throat spec and how many more wore made to the current spec. In both cases, a simple pass with a reamer will make things good, especially for military-grade rifles.

[SD GUY]

No - they stated they "are no longer offering 6.5 Grendel ammo or brass". They offer to replace the ammo with any OTHER ammo they have in stock. Or a cash refund of amount paid plus shipping cost.

And I agree they stated this is their current offer. Yet I believe they have small rifle Grendel brass in the works. My reason for stating the Grendel brass is in the works is based on a comment/email from PRIVI shared on another fourm. See 8/31/16 post from member.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/701132_PPU_recalling_all_6_5_Grendel_ammunition.html